To purposely create a child who'll be a minority?

[sweetgo]

Hiya,

Currently looking at sperm donors. I think I've found the right one, he's Korean. I only have a little information on him, but obviously know he is Korean. This isn't a debate on people's views on sperm donors.

Child would be brought up in the UK, if successful obviously, and would be mixed race (1/2 Korean). Therefore, they would be a minority, is it wrong to worry about racism, etc.?? WIBU to purposely go for the Korean donor knowing they could potentially experience racism, etc.?

Absolutely parsley and no one with mixed herritgage children are saying we wouldn't have them I hope! (Myself included) but where there is a choice and no connection to father/paternal family or any link to Korea, how easy will it to be to offer some sense of connection to the country. The child will inevitably be interested and there, in my opinion needs to be some way to help them feel an understanding of their background/sense of identity especially given the added complexity of having a donor father.

Has OP said why Korea yet?

I think my biggest worry in your situation wouldn't be about racism (though I don't dismiss that worry). But more that as your child grew up, maybe especially as a teenager the fact that they look quite different to you and the rest of their family may make them start to think they don't belong, and associated thoughts/feelings. I think this is something that a lot of children go through in family's where all the children are born of the same mum and dad and I think the risk of this is higher from an Ivf child and again higher of ethnicity is different from the parents.

As a lone parent of donor-conceived children, I've learned a few things.

1. It's hard on your kids. While we all have children for ultimately selfish reasons, DC children who don't have a dad can feel quite self-conscious about the fact, particularly at school. While there are lots of kids who have dads who aren't around much or that they don't live with full-time, they know who their dads are. Your children don't have that so you need to do a lot of work on giving them the emotional resilience to deal with slurs that other kids may chuck their way.
2. It's important that they are able to contact their donor parent when/if they want when they turn 18. I've noticed on the donor conception board on here that there are increasing numbers of women using donor eggs who are lying to their children about their origins. It's monumentally unfair on your child to do that. If you are unable to conceive (for whatever reason) the 'normal' way, you owe it to your child to be as transparent as possible about their origins. The HFEA guidelines that removed anonymity from donors are there for a very good reason. Again, this isn't about you, it's about your child.
3. Make things as easy as you can for your child. Explain to them from the outset where they came from (don't do the big reveal), share your journey with your family and friends - you will need their support and your child will need their blessing and love. Build and nurture those relationships so that your child feels supported by a wider group of people rather than just you. I agree with LRD that you should choose a donor whose letter appeals to you. But I also think (as I said above) that part of making life easy is choosing a donor who isn't very obviously ethnically different from you. You're already making your child different by dint of their conception. Don't compound that unnecessarily. People will be hugely curious about your children's father - it's up to you and your children who you tell in your wider community but even if you're not asked questions directly, people will gossip about you.

I know I'll piss some people off with some of this. But I'm speaking honestly, on behalf of my DC, as well as me.

Having said all that, don't listen to the people who say that it's wrong and you shouldn't do it. It's the best thing I've ever done and my DC are absolutely awesome.

Good luck

No as I said I would never change my son for the world but god I would change the racism he's experienced. I can't imagine if you have a mixed race child with no one to talk to that child about what racism is - I can't understand that. I can empathise and make the right noises but I can't understand it from a visceral place. As a foot note I am astounded in this day and age the racism my son has experienced - he is 13, from me being told by a neighbour when he was 4 that he didn't want a bunch of ns moving into our house when we rented it out, my son being called a fat n**r, my son being called fat, black with no foreskin while on a football pitch, my son being asked where he was from ?! By a racist older man, me being asked how I ended up with one like that ?! (I did say to that one born lucky I guess). He is moving to a boarding school in September which is ethically diverse and it can't come soon enough ! So without wishing to derail this thread op think hard and clear about this - that mixed race baby will be beautiful (ok I'm biased) but if you haven't the emotional strength, diverse support and ethnic culture around you don't do it.

On another note we were at nursery with a mum who used donor sperm and she was really gossiped about - not by me I didn't care but the topic of conversation came up a lot with mums from that nursery. I thought a lot about donor sperm then and thought would you tell would you not ? Also a friend of mine used a donor egg and has been completely up front about and people never mention that but I think it's because she's in marriage with the father iyswim.

I am part-Asian and my husband is British - we have two children together and yes, they don't look totally white nor do they look Asian - they look mixed, like you couldn't tell where they are from. The only racism I have ever experienced came before we were even married, from an older lady who said to me 'you both surely can't plan to have children - it's not fair on them as they will be half-casts!' I honestly didn't know what to say so just stood in awe at the audacity of this lady. I put it down to generation she grew up in (and maybe she was just a plain old bigot!) - forgot about it soon after.

OP - go for it if you are sure. No one on this board can make such a huge decision for you.

A bit of a derail but The comments from mixed race posters about not belonging to either race make me feel sad for DD. Is there anyway I can ensure she feels like she belongs as she grows up? she is unlikely to have a sibling but does have cousins of the same ethic mix BTW.

Splodgeinc I don't think you can really change the sense of not belonging to a race. But you can be a lovely parent who is always willing to listen and acknowledge her feelings, even if you can't personally relate to them.

You can't control whether people are racists and/or judgey. You can control how much you try to be a lovely parent. Don't stress about the things that you can't control.

jigglytough is right. But this seems to be going in a different direction. Race is not the only issue here - donor conceived children have a different experience so although the question is framed about race the answer is more complex than that. If you have mixed race children who have a dad, even if they don't have any contact with him, it's not the same as this situation. They have a piece of the jigsaw even if it's just a name. Our children don't have that. It's a very different scenario psychologically and socially.

On another note we were at nursery with a mum who used donor sperm and she was really gossiped about - not by me I didn't care but the topic of conversation came up a lot with mums from that nursery. I thought a lot about donor sperm then and thought would you tell would you not ? Also a friend of mine used a donor egg and has been completely up front about and people never mention that but I think it's because she's in marriage with the father iyswim.

Gosh, that's really shitty. I hope you felt able to say something to them.

I'm sure people talk about us. I don't honestly care because it's not a guilty secret iyswim. I tell people as it comes up. If they choose to pass it on as gossip, that's fine by me. It's another way of disseminating (!) the information without me having to make a formal announcement every five minutes.

The children are very at ease with their heritage (for now). I have to brace myself for conversations at random moments (when talking to a local delivery driver for instance!).

My first son is mixed race (half african) and his father has been absent since he was a baby. Having a mixed race child is no "problem" at all as long as you understand that it is absolutely your responsibility to ensure that that part of their culture is not lost. In my case that means
-reading him stories from the particular part of Africa his father was from

• knowing how to take care of his hair and skin properly and doing so (yes it is different - very different)
• cooking food from the particular part of Africa that his father was from one a reasonably regular basis
• he wears traditional African clothes on some special occasions (birthday, christmas etc)
• His name is African
• He has some traditional toys from that part of Africa
• I know what tribe he is linked to and have educated myself about it and pass on what I can to him.

You absolutely can NOT just assume that because the other parent is not on the scene for whatever reason that you can just ignore that part of your child - that is called whitewashing and is racist and wrong.

For those who are saying that oh "don't worry" it might not even be obvious that he is Korean - check yourselves. You are being really racist and offensive - acting like its a bonus if the Korean part of him doesn't inconveniently show up. Of course the child needs to learn about Korea. If not he is at risk of having a pretty major identity crisis at some point in his life.

For the person who accused name of being racist - she wasn't. She was saying that if you are a white person with white kids you don't have experience in this area and saying stuff like the colour of the child "doesn't matter" is a best naive. When people say that "I don't see colour" bullshit it is indicative of someone with zero understanding of the role race still plays in society - it is dismissive and minimising of race issues and it only ever comes out of the mouths of white people. As has been said - you aren't doing us a favour by "overlooking" the non white part of our child as if it is somehow awkward.

Also - regarding "needs to fit in with your family".......sorry if some of you have nasty bigoted parents and relatives but my son has never had a problem "fitting in" to my family. They have, as I have, learned a lot from him as have I about the issues faced by non white people and we have grown from that......but he isn't considered some kind of "outsider" because he isn't white. It would be pretty vile if he was.......

Yep, but I'd hope someone would put in a nice word during that gossip, especially if people are distinguishing between married and unmarried mothers!

I´ve actually been in the same position with the same dilemma. In the end I didn´t go for sperm donorship at all, but I changed my mind at the last moment. I decided against a donor of a different race in the end. My reason was that the child I would hopefully have would have enough to cope with, with being brought up by me alone (I don´t have a family network to help) and with accepting that he/she had been conceived by sperm donor and therefore had no father at all, not even just a name and a photo of someone I once dated. I didn´t need to add to the potential for issues for that child by also introducing another ethnic background.

Agree with everything Nell said. I don't think it's possible to 'overthink' when it comes to your future child and some posters seem very very invested in denying any racism happens to children ever, at all. Some responses on here are bizarre.

I completely get your concerns OP and agree with a PP that's there's the potential for your child to experience the isolation of racism without the grounding of a community, culture, shared history, food. I would be worrying about that too. Not sure where you are in the country but in London there are culturally themed clubs and playgroups run to help children learn about their backgrounds - that's the kind of thing I'd be wanting to get involved with if I went ahead with your plans.

Racism can be pervasive, innocuous, unintentional. I can't believe that in 2017 we're still having to explain that not all racists wear white hoods.

Olivia there are, sadly, always people engaging in racism denying. Its exhausting.

It is changed, completely draining.

I would never want to minimize racism. But I am wondering: If the choice was between, say, a. A Frazier-loving, remain-voting Doctor who happened to have Korean ancestry and b. Mrs Brown Boys, Trump-fan, hedge-fund manager who was white - then surely, you'd/I'd chose the one who was a.

Exaggerated of course, and there are many choices, presumably, but if you felt the donor was a good match...then...

OP has disappeared?

I'm going to say something that some people may find... offensive.

So, many people on here posted that they have mixed raced children and that they've been called the n-word and other horrible slurs.

But I do think that the OP has to be aware that there is very unique racism that targets East-Asian men and women, especially intersected with sexism affecting both sexes (I'm not saying it's worse or less worse than racism towards black people. I just mean to say that it's different).

These are stereotypes and slurs a white person has never had to deal with. I'm not saying I couldn't empathise when friends of mine once told me what they grew up hearing.
And I do think it's important to know that also Asian men (not just women) do face racism and sexism in very ugly ways. Going into this with a lot of awareness, I mean.

However, my choir-friends being Chinese-French meant they also experienced prejudice from their Chinese community. According to them people in China only saw the European. People in Europe only the Asian...

These two had an Asian parent (father, if I remember correctly), but I suspect that even the Asian parent couldn't fully understand what it meant to be perceived as an outsider in both places.

They themselves were really their support system.

So, if you do have a mixed race child OP, I think it's really important that your DC has access to resources for Asian children and mixed Children.
for support,to understand that others may experience similar things etc.

And I'm not saying the OP can't empathise.
So, for example DH can empathise what it means to be beaten up, held down and threatened with rape because you're a lesbian (actually bi, but anyhow).
But I don't think he can truly understand how helpless I felt and how scary it was. Or how much it still impacts me and how I see and 'know' the world.

And I imagine it's similar with racism. Just starts much earlier and you can't shed it. Because for me there were situations when we decided to not hold hands etc because we knew it could be dangerous. But with race that way of protection against racism doesn't exist.

So, if you think I said something offensive then please ask me what I mean, maybe I just translated something weirdly or idk. As I said, I personally have not experienced racism (full disclosure, I do have some Jewish ancestry. But I don't identify as Jewish and it's not 'visible'. So, yeah, never had to deal with this racism. I just wrote down what I was told about this particular issue and what I think to understand from my own violent experiences with sexism and homophobia).

For the person who accused name of being racist - she wasn't. She was saying that if you are a white person with white kids you don't have experience in this area

she absolutely was

of course white people with white kids experience racism. How completely blind and ignorant to say they don't

How bigoted to say that white people's views carry less weight.

How utterly unbelievably prejudiced to be making these wild assumptions in the first place, and how ignorant can you be to assume you can guess someones colour and culture and back ground and history from posts like these, (excepting the ones who identify themselves)

I just can't stand this type of blatent blaring racism,

there is no place for people with this attitude in our society.

Clary I just wanted to say that I don't think you've been offensive at all. In fact I think you've explained what I've been thinking really well. I don't think people in a position of privilege, while they can certainly empathise, can never really understand what it feels like to be the 'other' (although people can be both privileged and 'other' in different ways).

And user, while I'm sure you're out for an argument after your goading, you won't get it from me. I haven't got the energy.

Oh do calm down user you are utterly clueless and just bapping on.

There is no 'blaring racism' unless you are referring to your own views about dismissing the background on non white people as unimportant.

I haven't said any of the things you have accused me of. You have done that typical right wing thing of reading what you want to read into something because you have been challenged.

How as a white mother of white children do you think you have the right to tell black or white mothers of black children what they should think wrt to their child's cultural heritage.

What kind of monumental arrogance makes someone think that they know better than someone living that experience? Why are you going off like a deranged rocket at the very idea that someone migt suggest that you don't know best about someone else's life?
Why do you need so badly to be right? Why is it so important to you to get to tell black people what to do?

Now come tell me that you are black. Go on, you know you wanna

I don't think people in a position of privilege, o here we go again, the trendy, right on myth of "privilege"

There is no 'blaring racism' unless you are referring to your own views about dismissing the background on non white people as unimportant.

I haven't dismissed anyone as lesser on the basis of their colour, you have, I'd like to hear definition of racist that excludes that.

How as a white mother of white children do you think you have the right to tell black or white mothers of black children what they should think wrt to their child's cultural heritage.

what makes you say I am a white mother of white children, wild , unfounded and racist assumption