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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that men can never become pregnant or carry a pregnancy?

260 replies

Manumission · 09/01/2017 07:30

And that this must be yet another very confusing week in which to be seven years old or thereabouts?

Nearly every week is an irritating week in which to be a clear thinker of any age but I've been really pondering this morning what it felt like to figure the world out as a child. I'm glad I'm not one ATM and that I don't have smallish ones.

OP posts:
SpeakNoWords · 09/01/2017 16:43

I know, I'm supposing that it's the only "acceptable" answer these days, for fear of being labelled a bigot/transphobic.

RacoonBandit · 09/01/2017 16:43

Hayden's identity isn't but the headline is.

It is not difficult really to see that Man pregnant is incorrect. You cannot be a man with women's bits it is impossible. Why would you teach a child such a thing?
What is so wrong with saying trans man? Why is an accurate description so frowned upon?

SouthWestmom · 09/01/2017 16:45

Annie that was in response to a comment about why she would get pregnant by choice

ArcheryAnnie · 09/01/2017 16:46

However she also lives in society where she knows most people choose to determine themselves in a certain binary stereotypical way, and others don't.

Then she's been taught utter bollocks, Daisy. I don't choose to determine myself in a certain binary stereotypical way, and I don't know any woman who does. I am defined as a woman - and get the lower status, lower pay and all the rest of it - because of the biological body I am born into.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 16:50

It is not difficult really to see that Man pregnant is incorrect.

Of course we all know why the headline is such - to get people to pick up the newspaper / article.

Whilst it's incorrect that a bio man is pregnant, it's not incorrect that an individual who identifies as a man is pregnant. Hayden would say "I'm a man and I'm pregnant". He could also say "I'm a trans-man and I'm pregnant". His choice to identify with a stereotypical binary role that differs from his biological sex. The law and society understands and respects that. It is correct, in the UK, at this time. He's a man - legally a 'Mr'. He's not a Mr trans...

MissStein · 09/01/2017 16:50

At the moment a man cant produce eggs and become pregnant in the same way that a woman can. However given the scientific breakthroughs with womb transplants i genuinely cant see men being pregnant being that too far off. Its no more unnatural than heart or liver transplants.

As regards this case, it was a woman who then identified as a man. Who then presumably also wanted to be a parent and used the tools nature gave them.

When a biological man produces an egg, fall pregnants and gives birth, that will be news worthy. This is just run of the mill really.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 16:56

I am defined as a woman - and get the lower status, lower pay and all the rest of it - because of the biological body I am born into.

That's nice. Others aren't.

RacoonBandit · 09/01/2017 16:57

Then the headline should read Trans man pregnant. I get that the headline is all about grabbing readers attention that's why it reads as it does but that does not make it right.
Hayden is to me making the real trans issues faced by some seem ridiculous. Hayden absolutely does not want to be a women and only feels like a man yet is doing the most female thing possible Confused

trevortrevorslattery · 09/01/2017 16:59

YANBU

HermioneWeasley · 09/01/2017 17:01

daisy I don't believe for a minute you're that naive.

Do you think the millions (billions?) of women and girls around the world choose their oppression? Do you think they can opt out of FGM, being a child bride, being trafficked or demand an education by simply saying "I feel like a man"?

Biology is horribly essentialist and (as another poster put it) transphobic as fuck.

ArcheryAnnie · 09/01/2017 17:04

That's nice. Others aren't.

Ah, no, Daisy - you said I choose this. I don't. It's what I'm born into, and whatever fantasies about gender I might spin to try and make myself feel better about it, I will remain a woman, whatever I "identify" as and whatever I do.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 17:15

Then the headline should read Trans man pregnant.

It could do, but in the context of this AIBU, i.e. This must be yet another very confusing week in which to be seven years old or thereabouts?

There's no such confusion when in literally the next few sentences reveals the whole story.

Most adults reading the article would also not be confused (unlike the OP says later). I think most people would think:-

"Man pregnant?!"

"it is a womb transplant or a trans pregnancy?"

"Oh it's a trans pregnancy"

moves on with life

RacoonBandit · 09/01/2017 17:18

I don't think many 7 yo read the Sun Daisy but I imagine they may read the headline while stood in the corner shop/supermarket.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 17:25

I don't think many 7 yo read the Sun Daisy

Ha!, no, you'd hope not :)

I don't think this article was on the front page anyway.

HiDBandSIL · 09/01/2017 17:49

YANBU at all.

I will be working very hard over the next 20 years to teach my children (currently very young) that despite what they might read in The Sun:

1 there are two sexes
2 you are whichever one you were born and you cannot change it with surgery or drugs and
3 men can't get pregnant.

I can't believe we're living in times where we're being asked to pretend that those biological facts aren't true.

Nataleejah · 09/01/2017 17:53

I wonder about a that child.
Children get forcibly removed from parents if they're at risk of future emotional harm, if parents have MH issues or learning difficulties.
Yet here a child is means for some deluded individuals to "express themselves".

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 17:58

HiDBandSIL

So if your children (say, approx 7) saw this picture and knew that the individual was born biologically female, you would just be saying that they're female, nothing more? Or if not, what would you say to queries along the lines of:-

"But that looks like a man, mummy"

To think that men can never become pregnant or carry a pregnancy?
amispartacus · 09/01/2017 18:01

Yet here a child is means for some deluded individuals to "express themselves

So are you saying that a child should be removed from a parent who is trans?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 09/01/2017 21:26

MissStein a uterus transplant will likely be possible fairly soon, but only into a female body, to replace - for example - a damaged organ.

This is completely different from the idea that uterus transplants will be possible for men. This is not likely to be on the cards for a very long time, if ever. The functions of the uterus depend on immensely complex hormonal changes operating on a whole female reproductive system including body parts on which the uterus depends and without which it cannot function. You can't just plug a uterus into a male body and expect it to function.

RacoonBandit · 09/01/2017 21:27

You can't just plug a uterus into a male body and expect it to function.

This made me laugh but the sad truth is some people out there believe that you can Sad

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 09/01/2017 21:34

I wouldn't argue that parents who are trans should have their children removed. However I would hope that HCP involved with anyone who is pregnant while claiming to be a man would keep a close eye. PND would be very likely, I'd have thought, for a start. Anyone operating with that level of disconnect to reality is unlikely to be very balanced.

MissStein · 09/01/2017 21:46

Prawn, id absolutely be willing to be that at some point in the future, science will allow men to carry a pregnancy to term. Perhaps not at the moment, or even in my lifetime, but at some point it will happen. Obviously I understand that you cant just plugg an uterus into a man and expect it to function, but science distorts/changes/meddles with the human body to so many degrees (i dont mean this to be negative btw) that we previously couldnt imagine possible and now are just taken for granted.

Screenburn · 09/01/2017 21:49

Maybe I'm missing the point or whatever but if you feel so much like a man that you couldn't bear having anything about you associated with woman things, surely you'd do absolutely everything to avoid getting pregnant as it would really mess with your head and be really dysphoric?

So either the dude doesn't really consider himself to be a dude, or he is an enormous attention seeker who will sacrifice his own mental health for headlines. Neither is all that great tbh.

augustbody · 09/01/2017 22:10

Do you think the millions (billions?) of women and girls around the world choose their oppression? Do you think they can opt out of FGM, being a child bride, being trafficked or demand an education by simply saying "I feel like a man"?

Yes, this.

It really pisses me off that a subset of men are now basically saying that biology doesn't matter. Tell that to all the millions of women who are still massively oppressed purely because of their biology.

What a load of shit.

MissStein · 09/01/2017 22:19

Maybe I'm missing the point or whatever but if you feel so much like a man that you couldn't bear having anything about you associated with woman things, surely you'd do absolutely everything to avoid getting pregnant as it would really mess with your head and be really dysphoric?

People have killed other people such are their driving desires to have a child. So its not beyond the realm of imagination that despite feeling so much like a man that you couldn't bear having anything about you associated with woman things, it may be bearable enough for 9 months to produce a biological child.