To think that men can never become pregnant or carry a pregnancy?

[Manumission]

And that this must be yet another very confusing week in which to be seven years old or thereabouts?

Nearly every week is an irritating week in which to be a clear thinker of any age but I've been really pondering this morning what it felt like to figure the world out as a child. I'm glad I'm not one ATM and that I don't have smallish ones.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

MissStein, for a man to conceive.and bear a baby would require a whole lot more than a uterus transplant. Pretty much the whole contents of the abdomen and pelvis would need changing, together with all the massively complex hormones required to create a womb lining, to maintain the stages of a pregnancy...

Given that women can do this without any assistance I can't see why anybody would make the astronomical investment in resources needed to allow men to conceive and gestate. I can see uterus transplants working for women at some point in the future, but I don't think you recognize just how complex (and essentially pointless) it would be in men.

[MissStein]

For precisely the reason that men cant do it. I can only imagine the prestige and place in history of being the scientist able to offer men the opportunity to carry their own child.

Science is full of controversial and expensive projects. This would be none any different.

[Redrocketship]

And the children that result from such a (highly unlikely, probably impossible) scientific advancement? I'm pretty sure that the amount of intervention that would be required to sustain a pregnancy, from anti rejection drugs to large amounts of synthetic hormones would be disastrous to a foetus and highly unethical to even contemplate.

[noeffingidea]

missstein it isn't going to happen, anymore than a full body transplant is going to happen. It's just not feasible. Personally I don't see uterus transplants to female patients becoming routine either. Its a matter of balancing the effectiveness of the results against the cost of the research - both in financial and human terms.
This is one of the problems with inaccurate reporting. People are being lead down the garden path and being given false hopes.

[RacoonBandit]

Miss it is not going to happen.
As pp said there is a lot more involved than just popping in a uterus and there you go.

Yes we can transplant organs but that's because males and females have a heart/kidneys/live etc so the brain is already programmed to make them function. A mans brain does not recognise a uterus and would not support it no matter how many hormones they took.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

And, of course, there's medical ethics. While researching whether you can transplant a uterus you couldn't help putting every single test subject at very high risk with, at least the first ones (hundreds?) knowing they were risking their lives with no hope of a pregnancy because at that stage implantation would be no more than a distant hope.

Then, given all these astonishingly altruistic guinea pigs, you reach another ethical minefield. What scientific or medical body is going to authorize the implantation of foetuses into an experimental transplanted uterus?

The medical ethics angle alone would make experiments into this a non-starter.

[RacoonBandit]

Prawn you are right of course. I was focusing on the physical impossibilities but medical ethics is probably more important.

We currently have groups nutters who threaten pregnant women and doctors with violence and have even killed because to them abortion is murder there is not a cat in hells chance purposefully using foetuses as experimental objects would be allowed.

[Bettersleepoutdoors]

early "adoption/ surrogacy"?
Could it ever be so that a woman seeking a termination of pregnancy might be offered/ expected to relinquish the fetus or embryo for transplantation.

I don't find the "man is pregnant" line confusing.
But it is erroneous and I find it irritating.

[MissStein]

there are plenty of countries who skip round ethics especially in the hunt for scientific glory. Look back 50/100 years ago and think what they thought was impossible yet are taken for granted today. the full body transplant is a prime example. its maybe not possible yet, but the fact is people are trying. And once they try, really its just a matter of time. Of course it may be another 100 years of other medical breakthroughs before it is possible.

[BeyondTheStarryNight]

So, should it even get that far, how does a foetus survive the anti-rejection drugs? Or do we just wait and see what happens?

Do you know anything about medical research ethics?

[RacoonBandit]

Miss and you think that countries who skip around ethics are ok and right?

Yes medical science has done some terrible things to achieve successful transplants but at least these were done to preserve life. Transplanting a uterus in to a man is not about preserving life it is just bowing to what men want.

[noeffingidea]

Miss where are you getting your knowledge of medical research from? Dr Frankenstein?
That is how realistic both of these things are.
Yes it could happen hundreds of years in the future in some sort of star trek scenario. Who knows?
It's probably more feasible at this stage to create an artificial uterus enviroment outside of the human body. But really, whats the point. Humans already have an efficient way of reproducing, otherwise we wouldn't exist. Why spend millions upon millions in money, and cause much pain, for a medical development that isn't needed. Scientists are much more usefully employed researching and developing things like vaccines, new anibiotics, a cure for cancer, ie things that will actually benefit the entire human race.

[splendide]

And, of course, there's medical ethics. While researching whether you can transplant a uterus you couldn't help putting every single test subject at very high risk with, at least the first ones (hundreds?) knowing they were risking their lives with no hope of a pregnancy because at that stage implantation would be no more than a distant hope.

Er, this is all bollocks because it's happened already - the first successful pregnancy in a transplanted uterus was in 2014.

[MissStein]

No i dont think that countries who skip medical ethics are right. But what i, or any other morally minded person thinks, has no bearing on what these countries actually do.


And call me a cynic, but at the heart of many scientific breakthroughs is commercialism. Can they make money out of it? Would there be a market for men to carry their own biological child to term without the involvement of a woman other than a donor egg? I dont know, its an option currently available to and used by women (obviously with donor sperm rather than egg and women already usually have the reproductive organs required). Do men feel the same way? If possible, would some men choose and and pay for this? For me, its not beyond the realms of the impossible. In fact, it seems quite reasonable. Cuts out the negative technicalities of surrogacy. What about couples where the woman is unable to carry a child, would they pay for the man to carry it if it was possible.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

I think it can be easily explained

This man was born female but feels now they are more a man but it is a feeling not a fact

Like the belief in God

And of course we all know a man can not have a baby

[splendide]

Yes that's quite a reasonable explanation I think. I might also go onto say that he prefers to be called he and be referred to as a man and as such it's polite to do so.

[FloraFox]

I think a more reasonable explanation is: this woman would like to be treated as a man by other people however she is still female and can therefore have a child.

[SophieGiroux]

From what I read he didn't have sex with a man but got an anonymous sperm donation from a Facebook page, inserted it with a turkey baster then got pregnant first time

[Manumission]

Like the belief in God

Quite. And the press don't report the existence of God uncritically.

[Redrocketship]

Er, this is all bollocks because it's happened already - the first successful pregnancy in a transplanted uterus was in 2014

In a female, who already has the required nervous, hormonal and reproductive system to support a uterus. In a male this would be impossible and if it was somehow successful, it would require huge amounts of intervention, which would certainly be detrimental to a foetus. So, not bollocks then tbh

[NovemberInDailyFailLand]

It's nonsense anyway - there is a 'first transgendered male mother' non-story every couple of years or so: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113383/Britains-transgendered-male-mother-breaks-babys-gay-father.html

[LilQueenie]

Its nothing new its been happening for years. www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/368263/man-becomes-first-in-the-uk-to-give-birth-to-baby/

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Thank you, Redrocket. A uterus transplant into a woman's body replaces an existing but faulty organ which is linked in numerous ways to a reproductive system made up of loads of other organs and structures, as well as a complex interplay of hormones naturally released during a pregnancy. I didn't know it had been done in a woman already, but it was bound to be a hell of a lot more feasible than the same operation in a man. There's also a lot of motivation to research infertility, to enable women to bear children.

Implanting a uterus into a man's body would be so much more difficult that there's no comparison. Just attaching it inside the pelvis requires connections and systems that men's bodies don't have. When you think how the uterus swells and grows during pregnancy. How would that be possible without all the interplay of hormones and the suspensory ligaments? You couldn't just whack it in, plug n play. I can't see this happening any time soon.

[Redrocketship]

Exactly prawn, it's not like men just have an empty space in their abdomen where a uterus could be placed. Where would their other organs go? What would it connect to? How would pregnancy hormones be produced?

here is the story about the successful transplant and subsequent birth. The womb in this case was donated by the woman's mother

If a male wants to have biological children there is a perfectly good method to do that without the need to go all Dr Frankenstein! If it's all about simply the "experience" of carrying a child (which I have seen trans women say) then it is even more unethical and no way should it be done. Honestly, its pure male entitlement IMO.

[MrsDustyBusty]

You couldn't just whack it in, plug n play.

That people, even women, are so shamefully uninformed about female biology is, of course, part of the reason why this utter nonsense goes without comment. If you don't even have a rudimentary grasp of the complexity of female biology, of course it makes sense that men and women can change seem including men having women's shameful, mysterious parts inserted into men. It only takes the will to do it.