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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that men can never become pregnant or carry a pregnancy?

260 replies

Manumission · 09/01/2017 07:30

And that this must be yet another very confusing week in which to be seven years old or thereabouts?

Nearly every week is an irritating week in which to be a clear thinker of any age but I've been really pondering this morning what it felt like to figure the world out as a child. I'm glad I'm not one ATM and that I don't have smallish ones.

OP posts:
BIgBagofJelly · 09/01/2017 10:16

nannybeach

Why can't they carry a baby then transition to being a man?

People whine about the NHS not doing everything for them all the time, that person's an idiot has nothing to do with them being trans.

WorraLiberty · 09/01/2017 10:21

I just taught my kids that tabloid headlines are a load of bollocks.

They're adult/teenagers now and it's stood them in fairly good stead.

SilentBatperson · 09/01/2017 10:24

I saw one article referring to the pregnant person as a male, which surprised me. Am familiar with the idea that man and woman is about what you feel, ie gender, and male or female is about biology. Obviously not everyone agrees with it, but it's not an uncommon view now and clearly the journalists concerned won't have a story if they write 'woman is pregnant'. The story is predicated on acceptance of the pregnant person not being a woman.

So with that in mind I could understand articles referring to the person as a man, less so a male. Whatever else this situation is or isn't, it's not a pregnant male.

joystir59 · 09/01/2017 10:37

Sexually mature females bear children. It is not possible for a man to become a woman. People can express according to various gender models or create new ones, but they cannot change sex as it is an innate biological and genetic state. Ergo, men cannot be pregnant and give birth. Not even is they have had surgery and 'transitioned'. I can imagine an horrific future in which men manage to perfect the science which will enable them to have womb and ovary transplants and be supported hormonally etc to the point where they can conceive and bear life. I will not be part of that gruesome future, Thank goodness.

DailyFail1 · 09/01/2017 10:44

The person is in transition as a man so pregnant or not that's how he identifies himself. Quite rightly newspapers should use the gender he identifies with to describe him. Not up to prejudiced armchair critics to judge Hmm

splendide · 09/01/2017 10:44

joystir I see where you're coming from but you're making an assumption that the word "woman" cannot change meaning when of course words can and do change meaning. The obvious analogy is the change of meaning of the word marriage. So I agree with "Sexually mature females bear children." and "People can express according to various gender models or create new ones, but they cannot change sex as it is an innate biological and genetic state." but not with "It is not possible for a man to become a woman."

JaxingJump · 09/01/2017 10:48

He is a man. People have gone far further than use their biological body in order to have children. Maybe he just wanted to be a father to a biological child. I guess he could have used a surrogate. But I think that is his choice.

And maternity services are about the child too. Why shouldn't he have access to them if he is having a child. I doubt the NHS is going to start checking non pregnant people's (male or female) urine and scanning them just for equality. But anyone with a positive pregnancy test is entitled to these services. For themselves and their baby. Whether they are called a man throughout the process and throughout their lives or not.

Original poster
Manumission · 09/01/2017 10:51

With a NN like that, I'd have thought facts and accuracy in journalism would go down well with you Fail Grin

In all seriousness, how is impartial reporting supposed to work if it entails unquestioningly regurgitating the participants own emotional versions of truth even when those emotional narratives are incompatible with science? Or with the established meanings of words?

What is the nature or purpose of journalism then?

There must be a way to be kind without falling into thought-warp.

Racoon's account of what she says to her children is very compassionate and accepting. I think I'll run with that if I suddenly find myself with small children again.

OP posts:
FreshStartJanuary · 09/01/2017 10:54

Sp if the meaning of the word woman has changed that would leave a female human like myself no longer a woman, as I don't " feel like a woman".

It's going to make form filling harder.

Original poster
Manumission · 09/01/2017 10:57

That cat man story is just awful. So tragic and futile and so wasteful of life. Brave man though, to put himself through all that, physically.

OP posts:
Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 10:59

AIBU to think that men can never become pregnant or carry a pregnancy?

YABU - clearly a man with a womb can. It's considered more acceptable to refer to a female transitioning to a male as a 'man', not a 'trans-man', isn't it?

Pointing out the bleeding obvious does come across as a bit stuffy, OP. The headline is sensationalist and gets people talking, but no need to be pedantic about it.

bearfishdoodle · 09/01/2017 11:02

Just to be clear, biology is not bigotry.

Just to be clear, a woman is an adult human female of the sex able to produce eggs.

Just to be clear, maternity services = maternal = mother.

Just to be clear, the commonly referred to trans suicide statistics have been massaged by Mermaids and have been thoroughly debunked.

Just to be clear, any person can wear what they want, live how they want, name themselves what they want. It's not living as a woman or as a man, it's just living.

Just to be clear, women's rights are being eroded by trans rights activists.

Clear enough?

ArcheryAnnie · 09/01/2017 11:06

trans teenagers have the highest suicide rate of any group of people, they're more likely to be attacked on the street or suffer discrimination in the work place etc etc.

BigBags you may be interested in this analysis of trans suicide rates, here: 4thwavenow.com/2015/08/03/the-41-trans-suicide-rate-a-tale-of-flawed-data-and-lazy-journalists/

You may also be interested that women in prison have a far, far higher risk of suicide ideation and attempts than men in prison, or the population in general, but nobody seems to care or think it means they get to be considered over anyone else. Their needs always come last.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 11:06

How are my rights being eroded by trans rights activists?

Being pedantic about biology doesn't help someone who refers to themselves as the opposite bio sex. We no longer say things like:

"It's just a man in a dress!"

This thread is no more evolved than that, which is hurtful.

Trifleorbust · 09/01/2017 11:11

The anti-trans nutters are out in force again, I see. I fail to see how what someone else chooses to do with their body is any of anyone else's business.

bearfishdoodle · 09/01/2017 11:12

Daisy have you seen the cover of the latest National Geographic? All men of some variety on the cover. No natal women. That is erasure.

The right to go to the toilet in a safe space, the right for girls to have girls only dormitories on school trips, the right to refer to ourselves as women, I could go on. Do your own research and look past the trans rhetoric. Ask yourself why Alex Drummond wears a dress to expand the bandwidth of being a woman rather than widening the male experience?

bearfishdoodle · 09/01/2017 11:13

I see the 'transphobe!' nutters are at it again. I don't see why women are not allowed to have an opinion on what consitiutes a woman.

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/01/2017 11:14

I don't necessarily think that it's confusing or unbelievable that the person would want to become pregnant whilst still wanting to ultimately transition to a man.

I would have thought going through all the psychological checks you had to be firmly committed to becoming a man i.e. take on board that as a man you cannot have things as a woman. I would think this transition should be stopped until the woman can decide what it is she wants.

I think that is what is confusing.

A lot of people who transition with children had children whilst living as their birth gender, for want of a better description. Having a child whilst already come out as wanting to transition to becoming a male is a little like saying you are playing at being a man not actually identifying as a man

bearfishdoodle · 09/01/2017 11:15

And I'm not being pedantic, I'm merely stating facts. There is no evidence to back up transistioning rather than just letting people appear as they wish but there is a whole lot to show that automatically assuming girl who likes 'boy' activities is trans. It's terrifying how this propaganda has been swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/01/2017 11:19

I fail to see how what someone else chooses to do with their body is any of anyone else's business

When the money is coming from the general public then it is our business.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 11:19

Daisy have you seen the cover of the latest National Geographic? All men of some variety on the cover. No natal women. That is erasure.

Yes I have, it's excellent. I don't feel remotely erased. Have you seen the last 12 covers of (insert name of popular pregnancy magazine)? No representation of transgender at all!

The right to go to the toilet in a safe space

I have no issue with non-segregated toilets, à la Ally McBeal and every coach / train / plane I've ever been on.

etc etc etc.

I honestly don't feel threatened. You do, that's fine.

Daisyfrumps · 09/01/2017 11:22

automatically assuming girl who likes 'boy' activities is trans

This isn't the topic being discussed though, is it? Do you know the individual being discussed?

This thread is basically someone getting annoyed that a person who has a womb refers to themselves as a man.

What would you prefer the individual refer to themselves as?

bearfishdoodle · 09/01/2017 11:23

That's because, Daisy, only women can get pregnant. Good for you that you don't feel erased; if a black person said that would all the black lives matter movements stop? Of course not. Likewise good for you that you don't feel threatened by a biologically male person infringing on your personal space. Unfortunately my lived experience means I always have to err on the side of caution as a result of male violence.

Trifleorbust · 09/01/2017 11:24

Oliversmumsarmy: Rubbish. We pay taxes for the public good. That doesn't give us the right to make health policy.

ArcheryAnnie · 09/01/2017 11:24

How are my rights being eroded by trans rights activists?

Daisy do you really want to be left vulnerable shut in a room (refuge, hospital room, prison cell, homeless hostel) with a stranger who has a penis? And if you don't care, do you think it's OK for those women (vulnerable women, rape survivors, women with trauma, or indeed any woman who doesn't want to share intimate space with a male bodied stranger) who do care to be forced into it?