AIBU to be annoyed that they cleared my grandma's house a week after she went in a care home?

[Stiffanky]

My grandma is 96 and until the end of December2016, lived on her own. Over the past few months she's been getting more forgetful and has been wandering off on her own (without a coat in the cold) and getting lost. My parents made the decision that for her own safety she should go in a care home. They were going to put her in before Christmas but I insisted that she be with family for Christmas and so she went in on 28th December. I specifically told my parents not to throw anything of hers away until I'd had a chance to see her house and her things. I've found the process really difficult and emotional and I just wanted to spend some time in her home as it was, with her personality and character in it. Here we are, what, 10 days later and I discover that my dad has basically cleared her house, thrown loads of her stuff away and not even given me the opportunity to go there.... so many of my memories are in that house of her and my late grandpa and I find his lack of empathy so upsetting. Just had a blazing row with my parents about it... AIBU?

Phone the care home direct, I think saying she can't have visitors is bollocks fed to you by your parents, sorry. Your gm must feel devastated to be moved then have no visitors for days. Just ring them and say you're coming over.

Not "snippy" or "faux outraged" or, indeed, in need of a grip, thanks, SVJAA. Possibly a different definition of the word "clearing" and a different understanding of what the OP's father did in 10 days?

OP, I know you're hurt, and I see why. But, and it's a big but, please try to accept that there are things you cannot control in this.

I've been in the shoes of the one making the tough choices on behalf of my elderly gran. The priority was always to act in her best interests, and unfortunately that meant really pissing off some other family members who didn't fully understand the difficulties involved. They blamed me for every decision that wasn't what they would have done and that has seriously damaged our relationships. It's an awful position to be in, because you can't possibly keep everyone happy and all the guilt and sadness ends up coming your way no matter what you do. In many ways it is a privilege to be in that position of trust, but it's also a bit of a poison chalice.

You don't mention your mum much, and I wonder what she is making of all this?

diddl it will depend on what is in the PoA and also whether OP is an attorney for health or finance.

GigotdAgneau oh I'm sorry I missed the post where they disposed off all of the grandma's things and skipped it all. They cleared her home of her possessions, possibly to avoid burglaries, to give her some of her home comforts in the care home, to give special mementoes to family, to benefit charity shops/local donation places. Nowhere does OP state it was "disposed of". Get a grip, or don't. I don't really care. But you're adding arms and legs to a post and getting irritated about it.

Gigot My Mum and I cleared my 94 year old gran's flat in four days, with my then 9 year old in tow when she went into care. She lived in Cambridge, I lived and worked full time in Cornwall. My db was in Scotland, and my dh was posted abroad. I was at the start of organising my move to join dh. My Dad (her son) was dead, and his wife (my parents were divorced) wasn't interested in helping. I only had half term to do it, and was paying an hotel bill as well. We had to get it done as it was sheltered accommodation. Most of her stuff went to charity.

Don't judge, it's not always easy to sort these things out, and at times, you have to be fairly brutal about it.

I'm coming from the point that in the OP and her family's case, there was absolutely no urgency whatsoever about clearing the house. That's all, scaryteacher, your own circumstances were completely different, you do what you have to do. I just feel for the OP, there was absolutely no urgent reason for her father to behave the way he did in her grandma's particular circumstances, is all.

Your own father must know what type of person you are and that you would be upset at this, I would be too. I think it's heartless.

Your parents only had to make a phone call to tell you they were clearing out the house, also what they had planned for it, selling or renting etc. This is a lack of communication apparently. There might be very valid reasons why it needed to be done quickly, household insurance, are they able to claim a rates free period etc.
You do need to find out why the home is saying no visitors, whether it is advisory or as other posters have been suggesting there might be a health issue. What you certainly should do is to visit the CQC (Care Quality Commission) website and read the latest inspection report. If you are prevented from visiting your grandma by the home or you have any concerns about your grandma's care please report these to CQC.

I don't think YABU op, I would be pissed off also. Surely they would only be sorting through things that she would need in that time and like you said she owned her own home so not like there was urgent time limit.

I would find out the visiting times and just rock up there to see her. To be told someone needs time to settle in, doesn't sit well with me. I know I would feel pretty abandoned.

Nothing surprises me though about how quickly others especially family can disposes of someone's items. I Remember I told my uncle exactly what I thought of him as he started empting my uncles possession just after we buried him. Same happened to my Nana.

I hope you get to see your Grandma soon

I won't comment on what has already happened, as time has now moved on from then. This is intended as a gentle suggestion and hopefully will be taken as such.

Many of us place sentimental value on 'old' physical items or memories and there is nothing wrong with this if that is what gives us comfort. When faced with an elderly relative going into a home or suchlike, we can sometimes forget that they are still the same person, regardless of any physical or mental changes, and whilst they might do things differently than before or have different material things around them, they are still with us. Grasp this important fact, that they are still with us, and make 'new memories' with the person. One day, those 'new memories' will naturally become 'old memories' and we can be thankful of having been given the opportunity to have made them and to be now able to take comfort from them.

I was struck by the comment that this home is the same home which was used for a couple of weeks respite care each year for OP parents. How long have the parents been the main visiting carers for a 90+ with developing dementia?

The dementia aspect is important as its massively stressful to care for, would be a good reason to have a 'settling in' period in the home (as opposed to simple residential care which often recommends such a period but not strongly). Anyone mental health patient going into care is likely to have this recommendation. It is also a good reason to take the GM back to her own familiar home each night.

I've seen enough friends/family go through the stress of this that I can see both sides and I'm conscious of only getting one side of this. I can also understand the frustration of a more distant relative who wants to provide more care but can't. Ultimately the key decisions need to be taken by those managing on a day to day basis as they carry the load. From the DP's PoV they may want to just get the whole horrible process over with - we don't know.

It would have been better if the DPs had said when they were planning to clear the house but equally the OP could have given them a target date. Again the DPs were doing the job, its not fair to assume that because one (or both) are retired that their time can be taken for granted.

OP I'm really sorry you feel like this, its horrible for everyone and you plainly have a massive load on your plate at the moment. Ring the care home to get their comment visitors for yourself. If it is because of the dementia they may well be giving good advice but that doesn't stop you visiting them as one of her health PoA holders to discuss the care.

I'm on PoA for a number of elderly family both finance and health and decision making rules are usually written into the PoA. However it won't help your DGM if her responsible names are at odds with each other so you will need to come to some agreement with your mother.

Gigotdagneau I totally agree with you.

To those of who haven't RTWT (or even the op properly) OP has told us Dad has "cleared the house" and "thrown loads of stuff away". There is NO indication at all that momentoes were given to any family members (obviously OP got nothing) or even that Grandma has taken anything with her. Nothing about stuff going to charity (when OP could maybe buy it back.)

Also, OP says her grandma had been like this "for a few months" with no indication that her parents had been caring for her for years, as some seem to think, and it sounds like OP did her fair share over Xmas too (if you RTWT).

To those saying it's not up to OP, I'd say that since she has joint POA it is far more up to her than to Dad and OP also specifically said she had expressed her wishes because she knows what her father is like! What's wrong with that?

Dad is retired and no personal deadline ie returning to work, the parents live close buy so no travelling. With the holiday period, valuations wouldn't be done until the new year at earliest and it always looks better to have furniture in the estate agent photos anyway. It doesn't matter how quickly you need to get out of a rental property as this wasn't one (although we had 3 or 4 weeks when my granny died and she lived in a council house. ) I also had to clear my mother's stuff when she died so I know it's difficult but all it took was for the parents to say "we need to clear it by 3rd Jan so if you want something you need to let us know before then".

And stiffanky I agree with others that you at the very least have the right to discussions about her care with the home. Get round there now.

Louise

I think it is a bit more nuanced that that. I think both parties are at fault and both should communicated better.

I understand the OPs upset because her parents really ought to have picked up the phone and said "we are clearing the house on x date, if you want to come and look round/reminisce or get momento's then you need to do so by this date". It was thoughtless of them to have done so. OP is understandably (and not unreasonably upset).

However, I do think the OP is quite focussed on her feelings and doesn't mention her mother at all, only her father. It could be that OPs mum was happy with the plan or it could be that OPs father has rail-roaded her. I don't think we can tell but I do wonder what her mum feels about it all? Perhaps she is caught between her strident husband and forthright daughter.

I would, gently, point out to OP that her feelings are not more important than her mothers on this matter. It may have been that her mother, like mine, didn't want the thought of having to do something she found stressful hanging over her. Mum cleared my DGM's house quickly because she couldn't bear the thought of having it waiting for her to do and she wanted it done and dealt with. For all we know, OPs DM felt like this (as I said, OP hasn't mentioned her mum's view) but if so, why are OPs wishes more important? Doesn't excuse them not letting her know, but it may explain why it was done quicker than OP would have liked.

Either way, it won't serve OPs DGM well if her two PoA's are at loggerheads.

bellabasset - "Your parents only had to make a phone call to tell you they were clearing out the house, also what they had planned for it, selling or renting etc. This is a lack of communication apparently. There might be very valid reasons why it needed to be done quickly, household insurance, are they able to claim a rates free period etc."
Good points, but it is the OP, together with her mother, who has the PoA, therefore it is not up to the father to decide (it seems, unilaterally) what should be done without discussing it with the OP, who was only able to be back in the area 6 days ago and was intending to go to the house on Friday. The speed at which this has been done is strange, in the circumstances, as surely the OP, with the PoA, has a say as to when/whether the house should be sold or rented out and this really does not have to be done instantly, in the circumstances, as I keep saying!

You may have a point but put things into perspective.
I'm currently clearing (and have been doing all xmas) my DM's house, our family home of over 40 years. She was killed aged 69 last September in a tragic accident. Me and my DB are having to muddle through and do what we think is best, including do right by her long term partner who has only just left hospital and had to relocate to the other end of the country to rehabilitate. It's stressful and exhausting.
I'd give all her belongings back just to have her with us.
Please don't fall out with your parents over a flannel.
I hope your grandma settles and you see her soon.

Bobochic "The complexities of dealing with elderly parents are many. Grandchildren, to whom the responsibility of decision making and execution do not fall" normally, but in this case the OP does have PoA.

If the grandma is hoping to join another care home then 'settling in' will not be so urgent, and maintaining contact with family more import, IMHO.

I would, gently, point out to OP that her feelings are not more important than her mothers on this matter

Fair enough, but they are just as important than her father's and from a legal pov it doesn't appear to be anything to do with him.

OP's feelings are not more important than her mother's but they are important. The OP is not just a grandchild; she has been involved in her grandmother's affairs and care, including having POA. I was very close to my grandmother and did a lot for her. I cannot imagine my dad, whose mother she was, taking steps like OP describes her mother either doing or allowing, without consulting me.

As to the home not wanting visitors; again each case is different. When my mother, who had Alzheimer's disease, went into a nursing home (in the States), she wanted me to stay with her the first few days, which I did, sleeping on a fold out chair-thingy in her room. The staff were fine with this. For my mother, the more contact she had with people she knew, the more she was able to remember, and the better she was able to settle in. It depends on the individual, and I would question a care home that took a one-size-fits-all approach to dementia patients.

Ok so maybe time for an update having had the whole day to reflect on things. I am very close to my dad. He is a good man, is kind and caring. He had a very senior job in a high street bank and was a JP for 40 years... so is used to being in charge and being the boss/ making decisions. He's also been executor for many people's estates because he is fair, honest and trustworthy. But he is not without his faults... one of which is that he believes his actions are always right and doesn't like to be criticised. My mum has always had a laissez-faire approach to parenting and other matters. Whilst I don't doubt that she loves my grandma, she gets easily frustrated when my grandma forgets things and does things like zipping up her coat too quickly and brusquely, once trapping the skin on my grandmas neck in it. She is not emotionally demonstrative and so it's difficult to gauge how she feels in certain situations. She has said that she's very appreciative of the support that my dad has given her over the past few months but that the speed of the care home/ house clearance has also been too quick... but excuses it as being "your father's way". I'm trying to see it from my dad's point of view. He is also the main carer for my disabled brother who lives at home. I think he sometimes likes having a 'project' that means he has time away from the house and I feel that he's channeled his energies into the house clearance. I'm not saying that he shouldn't clear the house, merely that he'd agreed not to do anything until I could see it and therefore I believe the onus is on him to tell me what and when he was planning to do it... I genuinely was left with the impression that they were not going to do it immediately. He gave me a very sincere and heartfelt apology this morning and appreciates that he has caused a lot of anguish for, not just me, but my mum also. He can't undo what he's done but I'm hoping he will learn from it, although I suspect not. After 38 years, I know my dad pretty well and could foresee this exact scenario happening. That's why I specifically asked him not to do anything until I'd seen it. That's not me being "controlling or demanding"... I was merely trying to safeguard the house, my own desire to reminisce etc but also my grandma's sentiments. She may have dementia but it was still her home for many, many years.
The care home have suggested no visitors until she settles. I haven't verified that directly and it's come via my mum but she's not a liar. My parents have no ulterior motive... they are good people. They are not trying to sell her house for financial gain, or anything like that. They simply don't need to.

I posted last night because I was genuinely, and I still feel, justifiably upset at the situation. I wanted one last chance to see how my grandma lived in the house that carries so many memories for me. It's about more than "just a flannel"... it's about processing the next stage in my grandma's life. I always (naively) thought she'd live out her last days at home and so it's a massive deal to me that she's going into care... as I'm sure it is for anyone who loves their grandma as much as I do.

As for the unkind comments on here. I posted because I couldn't speak to my husband as he was away (visiting his own sick Nan) and I just needed to vent spleen. I don't expect everyone to agree with me... of course I entertained the possibility that I WAS being unreasonable and so I don't mind being told so... but there are ways to do it. Some of you on here need a long hard look at yourselves. What a shame that you feel the need to spend your Saturday nights taking shots at someone who is so clearly upset about a situation. Disagree with my post, sure, but be nice, be constructive. For those who were supportive or who have been through similar situations, or who just "get it"... thank you. Your words meant a lot.

OP I think maybe you've had some negative comments on here because of your choice of words. I have an adult daughter, and wouldn't take kindly to her 'insisting' I don't do something, or being 'specifically told' what I should do. It did sound like you were making the situation about you, when there were things which needed sorting and organising quickly. Hope all goes okay though, and that you manage to spend lots of quality time with her in the Home.

Thanks for the update OP.

So.... livelovebehappy..... yeah, I'll just acquiesce in future and just let me dad do whatever the hell he pleases, won't "specifically" ask anything of him. Get real.

As PoA the OP has a right to insist, especially as she knows her dad has form for this type of thing.

My mum's flat was on the Markey for two years! We moved things out slowly. To clear in 10 days is almost unimaginable. And people on here said 20 days was a long time for an empty house!!!

OP - some people on here just love to pick a fight