AIBU to be annoyed that they cleared my grandma's house a week after she went in a care home?

[Stiffanky]

My grandma is 96 and until the end of December2016, lived on her own. Over the past few months she's been getting more forgetful and has been wandering off on her own (without a coat in the cold) and getting lost. My parents made the decision that for her own safety she should go in a care home. They were going to put her in before Christmas but I insisted that she be with family for Christmas and so she went in on 28th December. I specifically told my parents not to throw anything of hers away until I'd had a chance to see her house and her things. I've found the process really difficult and emotional and I just wanted to spend some time in her home as it was, with her personality and character in it. Here we are, what, 10 days later and I discover that my dad has basically cleared her house, thrown loads of her stuff away and not even given me the opportunity to go there.... so many of my memories are in that house of her and my late grandpa and I find his lack of empathy so upsetting. Just had a blazing row with my parents about it... AIBU?

Problem with this thread is that OP should have included in her initial post that she only wanted replies to 'aibu' if they agreed she was not being unreasonable. The point of these threads is surely to get opinions and views from others as to their thoughts, but it appears every post where people are saying that yes, she might be behaving unreasonably, she is responding in a defensive aggressive way, because she is not hearing what she wants to hear. Appears there might be a backstory between her and her DF, which might explain some of the issues. Having a different opinion doesn't = nasty posters.

Showmetheminstrels..... I have every knowledge of what it's like to look after a disabled relative, thank you very much. I only moved an hour away when I got married four years ago, so until then, I was round the corner. I don't begrudge my parents having 2 weeks respite.... I want them to have more and tell them so frequently. They have weekends away when I move in and care for my brother and my grandma. For the two weeks that my grandma was in respite care, I offered to move home and look after her as that is what I'd rather do. I have seen some of the care assistants speaking disrespectfully to residents there and I really don't like the place that she's at. My grandmas and mums friends who have visited there have also concerns about the place but my parents had never actually visited her there and so they didn't understand. My reasons are valid. I do NOT disagree with what people have said on here... like I said, I'm well aware that I might be being unreasonable... that's why I posted on a AIBU thread. I've reflected on what's been said and taken it onboard. My dad and I have both apologised to each other and all is ok again.

Angeldelightedme..... sell the house so it can earn a return? Really? Do you know where credit interest rates are at presently? The capital value would probably appreciate at a higher rate than any interest in a bank account. I don't disagree with the need to sell or rent it per se but as PoA I should be involved in that decision.

Livelovebehappy.... I only responded unkindly last night as I was so fed up of being attached. Show me where I'd been unkind prior to that? I don't mind being told that I'm unreasonable... I just think people can do so in a nicer, more constructive way.... as some others on here have done so. It doesn't hurt to be nice.

Stiffanky - I've been through the whole dementia/care home thing with my dm. So I really do sympathise. Fortunately Dsis and I were able to spend 6 months+ sorting out her home.

Could you visit all the local care homes to see if you can find a better one for your nan? When dsis and I looked for places for our dm we only had 3 days to find somewhere (dm had been in hospital for 2 months and we were suddenly told she was being discharged, couldn't return home and would be placed in any available care unit if we couldn't sort something). If we'd had weeks to look we'd have taken weeks. As it was we visited everywhere local within 2-3 days. Didn't make any appointments / just turned up and nobody refused to show us round.

The lovely care home dm was in never refused access to anyone unless, as someone said up thread, they were trying to contain a sickness bug.

Ignore the h8ters OP

This is your personal grief - whilst your gran is still alive, you've lost the gran who you remember in her prime. Growing old is shit. You have my sympathy and support.

This is just a comment on a very unimportant side issue, which is already resolved, but I have to agree with LiveLoves comment about the language used in the original post. The following did make you sound like someone who regarded herself as the boss of her parents, and who expected them to do exactly as they were told without answering back. (Fully except that the "without answering back" part has been filled in by my brain, but it was the strength of your language that drove my inference.)

I insisted that she be with family for Christmas and so she went in on 28th December. I specifically told my parents not to throw anything of hers away until I'd had a chance to see her house and her things.

The fact that you have POA is not really relevant to you giving orders to you parents about who they should have in their home at Christmas, or the reasons for the constraint you placed on them clearing out the home. Most people would have "asked" in both cases, not "insisted" and "told".

You have clarified that you weren't actually that bossy, but that doesn't negate LiveLoves point, as she was talking about how you came across on the thread.

In case it's not obvious, it was the following by LiveLove that I'm supporting.

OP I think maybe you've had some negative comments on here because of your choice of words. I have an adult daughter, and wouldn't take kindly to her 'insisting' I don't do something, or being 'specifically told' what I should do.

I agree that your initial post did you no favours. It made you sound like a PITA who was bossing everyone about. As well as the "insisted" and "specifically told" you used phrases like "they put her in" which sounded as if you blamed your parents for moving your grandmother to a care home.
Your later posts have softened the picture and I can see why you think your Dad has been very hasty.
From what you say about your Dad he must be around 70 at least. He has a lot on his plate and even if he is healthy his energy levels will not be those of a forty or fifty year old.
It is distressing for all of you that your grandmother has had to move into care and I guess he is trying to be practical. For some people clearing a home is something they can only do if they crack on and get it over with. Others need to linger over it. Everyone is different.

The kindest thing you can do now for everyone is put your feelings aside and use some of that insisting and specifically telling on the managers of the care home. Your grandmother is still alive and she needs you to check she is okay and monitor what is happening there.

BTW do you and your mother have the POA jointly or jointly and severally. If the first you can only act together and need to co-sign everything, if the latter each of you can act on your grandmothers behalf independently. Your responsibility is to go with her wishes and best interests as far as you can ascertain them.

I am sorry for your situation, I know its very upsetting.

Ignore the h8ters

Is it really so hard to use an a?

Angel "First off POAs don't have to run things past one another- they can act independently as your DM has in asking your DF to clear the house"

It depends on the terms of the PoA. Some allow attorneys to act independently, some require all decisions to be jointly made by both/all, some vary it according to types of decision. I think there may be a default if you don't specify, but can't remember which way it defaults.

To the pp whose df/dgf? is being hassled to sell house and rent somewhere smaller in order to pay his wife's care fees, I would take some advice on that. I think another pp has said he cannot be required to do so - worth checking out if so.

Do two people with POA have to agree or is it just that they can act individually, on behalf of the person? I was some kind of joint POA for my uncle but it was only in case something untoward happened to my father before my uncle died. I never expected to be consulted on anything.

Xpost :)

Cross posted with flash about the different types of PoA - she explains it better!

Oh OP I completely get why you were upset. I'm sorry you didn't get the chance to see your grandmas belongings one last time and remember the good times attached to them. I loved my grandma with all my heart, she went into a home at 97 and I spent 2 weekends clearing her (council) house with my mum. Some of the things I got sentimental over were ridiculous and wouldn't have meant anything to anyone else - a chipped Mr Man cup, a stripy pool towel from the 70s with a pull cord at the top to keep it up, sheet music so old it disintegrated in my hand. Ultimately most of the stuff got thrown away but I enjoyed looking at them and remembering my happy childhood and the memories attached to them.
It took my grandma a long time to settle at the home. It was very upsetting at first when she would assume we were all leaving together, and she would cry a lot that she was being locked up. It did get better and visits were much happier. Maybe the home are trying to avoid a similar situation. We weren't stopped from visiting her at all though, that sounds kind of cruel.

Sorry I only specified council house there to explain why it was done quickly over 2 weekends.

Its a daunting job to empty a house, in would also try to do
it asap. its one of these things that gets worse every day its doesn't get done, so i understand your Dad.

You do have to put sentimentality aside, I'm afraid. She has enough for 18mo but better to get the house cleared and on the market ASAP.

You do have to put sentimentality aside, I'm afraid.

You can put sentimentality aside; you don't necessarily have to, especially if there are other family members to consider.

Well, I get where you're coming from. What stands out for me was when you said:
And the only reason I "specifically" asked my dad not to throw anything out is because he's done things like this before and thrown people's things away without asking them... he's done it all my life.

There's probably quite a back story there. Anyway, it resonated with me because my Dad's always done this sort of thing as well. He used to wait for Mum to go to visit relatives for the day (something he disapproved of) and then 'have a clear out'. He threw away a collection of cigarette cases that my Mum had done with my older brother when he was little (sounds odd now!). Another time he painted over the bit of wall in the kitchen that recorded all our heights when we were growing up. Maybe I'm projecting but anyway, I understand how you're feeling.

Newusername01.... totally get this. My dad did something similar and threw out a collection of vinyl... including an original copy of Abbey Road as well as some other valuable items. He took them to the local tip. Its not as straight forward as just that (he thought he was doing me a favour) but it's just one example of a long list of things he's done. Because HE perceives there to be no value, he thinks it's ok to throw things away, ignoring the fact that they might have value to others.

I take on board the fact that my language in my original post probably made me sound quite bossy... i wrote it in the heat of the moment and clearly didn't put sufficient context around it.

I'm very self reflective and so do take on board the comments and criticisms from people. I think sometimes on forums like this it's easier for people to say things that they wouldn't if face to face and I think that sometimes people take advantage of that. I do think that people should generally be more courteous (myself included) and think about the impact of their words, particularly if someone is struggling with a particular situation.

If you dont place sentimental value on things which have no material value then it can be very difficult to understand why this flannel is important but this other flannel isnt. It isnt from a place of malice just incomprehension.

If you are in the position of having to clear someone else's home and dont get the sentimental value then you are stuck with either binning everything or keeping everything (for fear of binning the 'wrong' egg cup or whatever).

The way to avoid tossing out something that someone cares about is to ask. I had the main responsibility for clearing my mother's house after she died, but I consulted my brother and emailed all the grandchildren asking if there was anything in particular that they had an attachment to. Not that hard to do really.

I want to add something here, too, from my own experience. My father died 3 years ago at the age of 93. He was fully mentally competent until the very end. I have a few personal mementos of his that are meaningful, but they are not quite so important to me because all of my memories of him are of his being fully engaged with me and my family and with the larger world.

My mother also died at the age of 93, last year. (She and my dad divorced when I was very young). She had Alzheimer's disease which in her last two years stole away so much of her essence until at last it took her body. I was with her nearly every day during those two years so that when she died, it was this much diminished woman that was stamped in my mind and heart as my mother.

What I have found in the months that have passed is that those memories of her diminished self are fading and all the wonderful memories of her fully-realized highly accomplished professional woman self raising two children and having a lot of fun along the way came back to me. And the things that helped that mother return in my memories are little trinkets and mementos of hers that I have kept and see almost daily around the house.

So yes, these small things can matter greatly.

Seneca - your post really resonated with me.

I lost my dad when he was 87 after a couple of years' ill health culminating in a horrendous death from cancer. I lost my mum last year at the age of 92 after an equally horrendous descent into dementia.

On each case, once they died, my mind was flooded with memories of them when they were younger, able-bodied, life-loving, intelligent, vibrant, loving parents. I can't honestly say keepsakes and mementos played much part in this, but I was amazed at how the good memories rose up to overwhelm the memories of them as frail shells of their former selves.

The way to avoid tossing out something that someone cares about is to ask.

But how far do you take it? This flannel, this egg cup, this whatever. In a highly charged atmosphere everything can attain emotional significance. You can end up locked in endless vacillation.