To believe that Theresa May will not trigger A50 this year?

[NobodyputsBabyinaKorma]

Yes, I know there is an EU referendum topic hidden away on MN but this is a genuine AIBU.

Anyone else think she won't be stupid enough to trigger Article 50 in 2017?

What I struggle to understand is how can posters like Badknee see this, and other posters see it and agree, and yet people still argue its good for the poor?

Everything badknee said - absolutely agree.

It because though the poor eg me and other have been saying for years this isn't working for them it works for the middle classes so they want it to stand and will simply shout down any one who disagrees a rasict

My sil voted remain she is upper middle class her children all attended private school so has no concept of what it means to worry about getting a school place or the pressure on class sizes also has a Hungarian mothers help the only eu migrants she meets are the ones who work for her or service her eg coffee shop Ect

On the other hand were I live is 30% eu migrants we need at least 3. New Primary's just to service the current population and the housing list is 11 years long

The arguments that I have heard re the EU being good for the poor centre around the belief that if the economy overall is doing better then the poor benefit by default.

If Brexit hits the economy the thinking is that the poor will be hit hardest - but they are just too stupid to realise it.

I do think it is very difficult for people to really think outside their own bubble of experience - whatever that might be.

User, us immigrants are in all sectors. I am in banking and the place are crawling with immigrants. My children go to school with children from all corners of the world. Amasing.

Britain does not need to trigger article 50 to leave the EU — it can just leave

Ingrid Detter de Frankopan
oracle

11 years!!?? 11 years. That is terrible. That really does leave anyone wanting a Council home in the area they grew up in with no hope at all. (I know it is not a problem caused by the EU but increased migration is a factor)

I know what you mean user1483046088 about your SiL - I have a few friends like that. Big houses renovated by Polish builders - who do do a great job it's true, and who have Czech or Polish nannies who are fabulous and work hard, yes. My brother, her husband, has lovely educated German and Danish colleagues and they all collaborate on international projects so of course it is a good thing for him. Both his kids are in top schools, (state but in rich catchment areas).

Caprianna - you are right that immigration affects all sectors but it does not have the same effect.

The numbers are different, the competition is different. The perception of British bankers compared with French/German/Dutch bankers is nothing like the comparison you made earlier in the thread.

Another for Badknee.

There are many welcoming, inclusive working class people who have had industry and livelihoods systematically dismantled about them, been forced into service jobs and now, in this very thread, called uncultured, impolite and overcharging.

I sat listening to a similar pejorative, classist rant at Christmas by a wealthy woman who was furious with 'the working classes' for voting to leave as she wanted her son to have a year in a European university.

It was pointed out that his future was unaffected; he'd be able to go to Europe whatever the outcome.

Other people do not have that choice.

She could not get her so-called educated mind around the utterly bleak lack of opportunity or hope that constitutes existence in many of our former centres of industry. That for many, the vote to leave was a vote for a better, fairer life for them
and their children.

It'll be interesting to see which way Holland votes. Several of my friends there are envious of Brexit.

| Caprianna Fri 06-Jan-17 20:37:26

Still in denial about the effect high immragtion has on the working class

problem what problem they cry

I don't think that she will, so YANBU. She already promised a special deal to Nissan which may contradict WTO rules and now everyone else wants a special deal which will be impossible to achieve. I think that they'll just do nothing and then blame it on the EU.

I sort of hope she doesn't but I don't she how she can't without committing political suicide.

Still in denial about the effect high immragtion has on the working class

It's going to get worse when you consider increasing automation.

Unemployment is actually very low and the areas with high unemployment tend to have low immigration

| BadKnee Fri 06-Jan-17 20:38:55

I know it's crazy it's not the Eus fault as such but you simply have to invite the amount you have catered for

I would have no issue with freedom on of movement of people

Had to

Have a solid job offer before stepping of a plane
Were barred for welfare
Had to have medical insurance
And had to provide there own housing

Then thre here under there own steam and are no berden on there host country then you protect the poor and take away any argument any real rasict may have

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid

its crazy the working class say immergation if effecting me negatively and the middle class say oh no it's not

Apparently we don't know our own minds have been brain washed by the daily mail or are lying I live on a coucil estate but Somone who's never lived in a coucil Ho,e is not working class and has never lived on a coucil estate seemingly knows more than me about the working class

I think that comment from user was for chicken

I agree with you User in separating the issues of race/nationality from unfairness/allocation of resources. I couldn't swear to it but I suspect that if Cameron had been able to get an agreement that in-work benefits including housing benefit depended to some extent on how long you had been in the country it might have swayed things. Also if eligibility to LA housing and school places was decided on factors including length of time lived locally for example then the locals would not have been so badly affected by large numbers of EU immigrants.

The situation as it is means that there will always be someone in "greater need" and you will never get to the top of the list.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid - is right about automation but it is not either/or - it is both.

Chickenkatsu - you are right that unemployment is relatively low but a lot of people on zero-hours or self-employed contracts, (Uber drivers, care workers) or part-time minimum wage workers do not count as unemployed - yet they are low-paid, underemployed and insecure. You are also right that areas with high unemployment have low immigration but it is a factor overall.

I think many working class people blame the immigrants for their position which has suited the politicians very well!

I don't think they do blame the immigrants, I think they blame the politicians for creating perfect free-market conditions to drive up rents and drive down labour costs.

In my experience the Brits are a very open lot and I have rarely seen individual immigrants "blamed". Considering the way the vote went if you really thought that that the vote was simply a vote against immigrants themselves you would expect to see a lot more unpleasantness in schools, workplaces and streets than you actually do.
Again it is dubbing the working classes as stupid and misguided

| Caprianna Fri 06-Jan-17 21:15:16

I can't speak for all working class but I certainly don't

I blame firstly the political class for not seeing there were enough of everything before inviting people to stay

The secondly the elite class for shouting us down when we dared to complain about our lot

after all I am a uneducated chav why dose it matter if my child's class goes from 28 to 31 Ect

Well put user1483046088

Taking a break now .... stuff to do.

Fingers crossed.

my children also go to school with 32 children in their class. There were over 30 children in a class when we lived in an area with no immigrants too so I don't make the connection.

Some working class do blame immigrants but so do some middle class just they don't for the stereotype so not presented in the media

There is far more integration and relationships between working class people and immigrants than mc and uc