To believe that Theresa May will not trigger A50 this year?

[NobodyputsBabyinaKorma]

Yes, I know there is an EU referendum topic hidden away on MN but this is a genuine AIBU.

Anyone else think she won't be stupid enough to trigger Article 50 in 2017?

^^brilliant post.
The EU as an entity was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. The right wing manipulation attempting to pit people against one another is repellent and must be overcome.

It looks like many staunch left wing leave voters were never left, but liked the sound of a government that protected their worker rights. Which is fine, but that's not all what the left is.
Possibly coupled with the "proudly alone" that the Brits (mostly in England) seem to have.

As for the OP, I suspect you're right.
I read an economist about failing in predictions of doom after the vote. Possibly because most people and companies are pragmatic and don't think it will happen that soon. Meanwhile business as usual.

Brilliant post by Honey! I also think some lefties naively think that workers rights will be more protected outside of EU. The Tories cannot wait to pounce once we are outside the EU.

failed experiment in some eyes, valuable work in progress with a lot of taken for granted benefits in reality in the eyes of many others.

Definitely not worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is the course this country seems to be set on. Damn you Cameron, hope the conference trail is going well.

Another great of both 'sides' have a nasty dig at each other and throwing stereotypes and generalisations around.

There are certain remain and leave voters that aren't exactly coming out of this well.

Interesting way of 'promoting peace' in recent years. I wouldn't exactly call aggressive expansionism antagonising Russia as 'promoting peace'. Nor would I call an antagonistic and economically threatening stance against those suggesting the might like to leave the bloc and coexist peacefully outside as particularly peaceful. In fact it rather suggests the kind of 'peace' through coercion of the USSR rather the cooperation the EU claims. The EU is beginning to look increasingly like it is using 'peace' as a threat rather than a promise. E.g. Submit to us or there will not be peace. Which is starting to sound aggressive in itself.

I'm also incredibly dubious about these wonderful workers rights we're constantly being told we're given by the EU in an era of zero hour contracts, enforced self employment, the gig economy and poor wages for many.

Bill Sykes- zero hour contracts are banned in most EU countries and the EU did put pressure on Cameron and the Tories to ban them here.

Britain has usually opted out of the worker protections though, whichever government was in power.

If we'd opted out of a lot of other EU diktats we'd be in a better position now and not facing this economic sword of Damocles.

(I'm a staunch remoaner but not of the left. We should be inside the EU but making it work better for us. I dread Art. 50 being triggered).

Part of me thinks YANBU but I think that's just because I find it hard to imagine. In reality, I do think she'll do it.

Yet when you actually speak to them it's all about their pensions, their money, their short term losses, their businesses

I do agree with this. I admit to not reading up enough or being knowledgeable enough about the referendum at the time (since become hugely interested!). Probably because I just didn't think it would ever really happen. I voted remain out of a vague sense that change would be worse and it wasn't until after we left that I realised how much loss and sadness I felt.

However, until shortly before the election, I thought that it was the conservative middle and upper classes who were more likely to vote remain and the younger, more economically vulnerable to vote leave. I didn't think of it as a left and right issue but as a wealth issue (which if anything would push the remain opinion to the right).

This may be because I work in an independent school and there was a strong remain bias there due to concerns over money and jobs.

I didn't see the left wing, educated, moral side of things come out until after the actual referendum.

Which is, imo, one reason why Corbyn didn't do a good job. I didn't see Labour as a face of remain at all. I actually thought they were neutral/divided.

I thought that it was the conservative middle and upper classes who were more likely to vote remain and the younger, more economically vulnerable to vote leave.

That's interesting.
I would have thought that the younger and more economically vulnerable will be more likely to lose with Brexit, if it causes an economic crisis.

Yes she absolute will

She had to get her party behind her to move on and she has certainly been cracking that whip one Tory voted against the timetable (and not a huge number of labour mp's I expected more to)

Of course there should be more transparency but the Tories always pull together as shown once again we are leaving all we can hope is that we have a soft (or very soft) Brexit and that Labour pull themselves together so they have a chance to win the next election and steer us to a softer Brexit

With Corbyn leading we haven't got a hope in hell but that's a whole new thread

NobodyputsBabyinaKorma

If you weren't a goady remoaner why put a strike through on "be stupid enough to"?

I know a couple of 'staunch leftie leave' voters. Their argument amongst others (and please forgive my ignorance):
Something to do with Turkey and Russia.
Something to do with a superstate
Something to do with big corporations owning the EU and UK not having any powers.

I don't pretend to know much about this. Does anyone know what these arguments mean or what they allude to? I'm interested. I was shocked actually that they had voted leave as my assumption about them was wrong!

I would like to hope you are right, OP.

Sadly though, I am not holding my breath. I think she will be twatty enough to trigger Article 50.

Unfortunately I think she is pig-headed enough and obsessed with reducing immigration at all costs. This 'othering' of EU citizens has been both shocking and depressing, particularly for those of us who felt a common EU citizenship and were proud of the EU passport. But I guess us 'citizens of the world' are no longer welcome.

Many on the left have always been anti EU Tony Benn certainly was and so was Corbyn certainly the far left
stance and socialist parties do not usually support the EU

They disagree with globalisation as the belief in that larger corporations are the ones that end up in control of the economy

That the EU is growing as a federation not as group of nations working together

Not sure what the Turkey/Russia issue is (there are many)

The referendum became so focused on immigration which we tend to see as only right wing supporters have concerns or issues with (that's been a big mistake at labours cost UKIP gain) but the Referendum was about so much more that that

There are a few left leave voters on here that can explain their reasoning better

She will do it because of "the will of the people" and we will all be utterly fucked for a very long time, in many different ways.

This 'othering' of EU citizens has been both shocking and depressing, particularly for those of us who felt a common EU citizenship and were proud of the EU passport. But I guess us 'citizens of the world' are no longer welcome.

Completely agree with this.

The left wing was traditionally the party of the working classes. The poor. The less educated.

They were worst hit by the flood of cheap EU labour. They were undercut by people who were "doing their year" in the UK to gain language skills so would accept minimum wage jobs even though they were relatively well skilled.

They were undercut by people who owned their own homes in Poland or Czech Republic so were not trying to rent or buy family homes in the UK. By people who could house-share and send money back "home" where it bought a lot more than it did here.

They were told by middle classes that the Eastern European workers were better than they were, worked harder, were more polite - all the time.

They were in competition for jobs and homes and school places with millions of people - not just locals. And anyone could do it because the in-work benefits made it possible.

The rich middle classes didn't have to worry that 80% of the school places would be taken by people suddenly buying in a wealthy suburb.

Working conditions are worse than they have been in long time. The zero hours contracts on which people get a text at 6am to tell them how much work they'll get - and if they are "difficult" someone else will do it - that is brutal. It rarely hits social workers, bankers, teachers, lawyers - it hits removals men and warehouse pickers, construction workers and carers, retail staff and bin men .

Brexit may affect house prices and pensions and jobs in universities - but that makes no difference to the working poor.

As for racism, the UK is one of the least racist countries in the EU and non-white British found racism worse from non-British Europeans than from locals who had grown up in mixed areas. Locals were often excluded from conversations and work related banter because it all took place in another language.

The poor, low-skilled, working classes found they were working with teams of people who did not share a language or a culture or a local connection - and told that they were racist to feel uncomfortable.

So there were sound left-wing reasons for voting out. If you really believe the left is the party of the poor and the workers that is.

No not of the remoners keep cock blocking

And mount legal challage after legal challenge

The eu is a doomed project

Greece the recent no vote in Italy and the impending boot kicking for Holland along with merkel whose already suffered electrol looses on course to be booted out as well this is a doomed project

| BadKnee Fri 06-Jan-17 18:55:24

Amen

Surely the EU is the lesser of two evils when all of the above is take into account?

Well yes with the slant you have put on it Honey, But I would argue most of your points. I don't agree with them.

Stanch Left like John Mcdonell are thought to have voted leave because they very much believe the EU is a rich white mans club. Labour was responsible for so many of the amazing workers rights we have today - we are a leading - global example of workers rights. Its laughable to think we would have to look to the EU to give us - help with this - we helped them with it . Frank Field has been oft quoted on these boards, choose your poor - which poor do you prioritize?

The EU is beginning to look increasingly like it is using 'peace' as a threat rather than a promise. E.g. Submit to us or there will not be peace. Which is starting to sound aggressive in itself

The EU as Alcatraz the prison no one can leave. It shouldn't be a prison people cant leave it should be this fabulous club the whole world wants to join.

As for peace, after WWI and WWII which country had appetite for more war? Really!

thank you Enthusiasm

I feel its all so complex that I cannot hope to understand really the ins and outs of all of it.