To hate the LTB brigade....

[crazydoglady6867]

I am continually shocked by the amount of time people are told to leave their partners on here. Is it just me that thinks a relationship is hard work and needs to be saved if there is any possibility.

I am onthat thread op and all I saw was someone scared. I am not part of the LTB brigade and think based on that thread what you say is uncalled for. Noone should be as unhappy or scared as she sounds just because she is married to him. I have been in a relationship with eating disorders and it is not easy and sometimes its better for everyone to walk away. Peoples happiness and their children's mental health is more important than the sanctity of marriage, I believe.

Good relationships aren't hard work. Life is hard work and you weather it together as a team.

If one person is treating the other person like shit, that's not a good relationship.

Sorry I disagree, an op starts a thread where it is clear she is being abused, physically, sexually, emotionally or financially, of course people will tell her to LTB. Why should she put up being abused . For reasons it might not happen straight away, but if it helps her to evaluate her situation and gives her the confidence to say no more shit, and make plans to leave, it is a positive thing. Why would you tell a woman to stay in an abusive relationship?

I don't think the OP was saying that women should put up with abuse, or should live lives of quiet despair in an unhappy marriage beyond hope of saving. I think she has a point when some posters immediately jump to LTB where there has been no attempt to try and address/resolve the situation where it isn't an abusive relationship.

YABU.

Most of the time the LTB is justified.

I am shocked some woman have such low standards for themselves. Some of the stories on here leave me like this

We shouldn't tolerate shit. We shouldn't remain in miserable unhappy relationships. It achieves nothing and is a waste of life.

When do you think LTB is justified OP?

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who was "shouty and bossy" personally...

I agree with the OP and a pp who said that there is not enough exploring of both sides SOMETIMES. Some cases on here are very clearly a get-out-now-don't-bring-your-coat situation. Others are clearly tiffs where someone has a bee in their bonnet and are just having a bit of a rant. Then others slide between these two. I have personally contributed to two threads advocating to stay and work it out because I had gone through a similar experience with dh (financial abuse and dealing with a man child). In our case dh was an immature arse who has pulled himself together to become a responsible and great husband/partner. It has taken work on both sides to achieve this. In some situations I feel that it is not recognised that some men can change and that it may be better for the family if that issue is worked on rather than kicking him out.

In short LTB can be given as advice too quickly in SOME situations where it can be possible to retrieve it. Also LTB can turn into berating a poster and implying that they are at fault or making the situation worse by not doing the impossible by leaving. Sometimes that it not helpful for a struggling poster.

""There's nothing wrong about being in the LTB "brigade", BUT everybody has to get there on their own.""

But they still need to hear that leaving is an option.

I'm 48, I grew up in a DV household, but so was every few houses, it was considered that's what marriage entailed. Women were told, even in the 80's to stay with abusers, even when their children had been abused, it was better than being a LP.

Many people never have an example of what a relationship should be. No-one in RL would tell them to leave, because, often their Mothers/Sisters are living with the same issues.

There are still very dangerous messages given to Women around relationships and minimising abuse.

The Courts are finally recognising and have criminalised emotional abuse.

That's without the effect on the children growing up in abusive households.

There's a poster on here who DD is a wreck because she stays with her lying/drug using Partner. She's not ready to leave, but she still should be told that she is picking her partner over her DDs MH.

OP, do you not understand anything about emotional abuse and control? the minimising of that to "shouty and bossy", is unbelievable. What do you suggest, that the Woman gets shouty back, how does that improve things?

I love that MN is a place where posters are told they are worthy of respect. A LTB has never upset me. I'm upset by the uninformed posters who miss the signs of abuse, who add to the stress of OPs who are in abusive relationships and actually become complicit in gaslighting the OP.
When I first joined MN, I was surprised at how quickly some posers picked up on the signs of abuse. They saw red flags much more quickly than I did. Then I worked with a DV charity and started to recognise the flags too.
This is people's real lives and, taking into account DV and EA statistics, not nearly enough people LTB.

Most of the time I'm right behind the LTB gang, though I think shouting LTB is unhelpful as often the OP isn't ready to hear it. I find the comments from people who help the op work things out for herself much more persuasive than the ones which tell her what to do.

Then there are the ones where your spider senses tell you there is more to it... But sometimes the hidden bit of the iceberg isn't about coercive control, it's about rubbish communication skills and even undiagnosed ASD. You can't work that out from one post, it takes a bit more unpacking. If I had posted on here over the years I would have had LTBs thrown at me by the hundreds. I've worked it out now. Sometimes LTB is still the right thing to do, as it is still hard to live with. Other times patience and understanding things from a different perspective makes things more manageable.

Utteridiot, one example from 2 years ago hardly makes a brigade does it?! I challenge the op to link to a half dozen recent threads where women are being advised to ltb over minor issues like 'putting the bins out'. Go on, I dare you.

Where can I buy a " LTH Brigade " t shirt ?

Or even LTB

I also think that sometimes there is another side to the story, people post in a way that presents them in the best light and their partners in the worst, when it's clear there maybe something else going on and they are only partially giving the story. Many times when a marriage breaks down there is fault on both sides, but you seldom see that articulated on mumsnet.

""In some situations I feel that it is not recognised that some men can change and that it may be better for the family if that issue is worked on rather than kicking him out.""

But while it's being worked on, firm boundaries need to be adhered to and time limits need to be stuck to, which it's usually asked if the partner would do this, usually they don't/won't.

But what happens is that they go into "Cycles of abuse", which the victim needs to get out quickly from, before they are broken down, mentally.

There's people who think that they've worked through their issues, then there children grow up and want little to do with them, because they can't forgive their Parents (usually Mother) for keeping them living with someone who was abusive.

Life has improved for many Women and Children, since we were able to live independently and the amount of Women killed by their Partners is going down, sadly it isn't for children, or children injured/mentally abused.

It think it's a bit patronising saying women don't realise they can leave.

I see what you are saying, but I feel uneasy giving that type of advise even my nearest, then again maybe it's easier to do on an anonymous board.

Would you say LTB in real life, face to face with your sister, for example, knowing it might all blow up?

I have been there, and I did tell her to LTB and now it's damaged our relationship and her relationship with the rest of the family.
I won't be doing it again.

I would tell someone to talk to an independent counsellor, but that's s it.

I'd get one. :)

It's one thing to demand that people leave the same instant and to help them through a leaving plan, or even into the frame of mind of leaving.
Unless there's violence and the abuser is clearly a risk.

Would you say LTB in real life, face to face with your sister, for example, knowing it might all blow up?

Yes, and we're still friends. Because I haven't demanded that she leaves. I understand that she hasn't, and have told her she can count on me when she does. Until then, I don't pressure her, and only discuss her relationship when she brings it up.

I got a ban for asking a SAHM who was considering LTB how she would finance her life as a single mother. OK, I was very blunt in how I phrased the question. But someone said it was offensive. Yet underneath the issue is still a important one. I think the OP has a point. there seem to be a lot of people who constantly say LTB at little provocation.

I know a nasty woman who divorced her husband because she had all she wanted, nice house in and son but didn't want the trouble of her husband. He was not abusive or nasty, he was not having an affair.

My SiL had her children and totally ignored her husband by staying with her mum to the point he allowed himself to be approached by the OW... (who is now his wife). How would MN have responded to her saying he was working hard to provide hee with a home and was very driven to suceed? Her first born has must married a divorced man who already has a child by previous wife... Chances of them stqying married??

Equally, I am apauled at the way some men behave and agree he should be left out of the OP's life.

I think Mumsnet is like another dimension of life.

It's funny, useful, sometimes kind and sometimes cruel and should never be relied on completely for all your needs.

I once got told my OH should leave his job and myself and my 3 children should sell our house to be nearer OHs children and even though OH drove 1000 miles every other weekend to see his kids he was a shite dad for not leaving his job.

I also once got ripped off in RL for an iPhone at xmas and someone here sent me one for free.

A good friend of mine went through a bit of a mid life crisis a few years ago and was considering leaving her husband. She was serious about it, had calculated that it could work financially etc. I listened but always advised to give it another few months. She was desperately unhappy. I'm glad to say she stuck it out. They both worked hard at resolving the issue, with counsel from myself and others close to her.

They are now still married and she is more content, though he seems less so and they are no longer as affectionate towards each other.

I would tell someone to talk to an independent counsellor, but that's s it.

It helps, certainly, and most times abused people are advised to seek counselling.
But there is too much pressure for people to stay in relationships.
I remember one instance in RL when I was the only one who said something wasn't OK. The others said their OHs also did something similar. I'm sure we all do, but then there are degrees of bastardness.

Relationships can be hard work yes, but we've two days until 2017, no one should be settling for a relationship where they are abused, with someone who takes all positivity from their lives, makes them unhappy, and doesn't particularly care.

I don't think that women of mumsnet wake up with a perfect partner, who one day leaves the loo seat up, and that acts as a catalyst for the LTB inducing AIBU.

as an aside, when I put up a post about my now ex, I had been putting up with his nonsense for SIX YEARS! In that time I've been through every wringer I believe possible. He's the kind of man who will take all of his work mates out for breakfast and come home to proudly tell me he has "saved" £200 that month for rent. Same man who booked a holiday to Disney, then never paid a penny and acted like there was nothing that could have been done (he had 14 months, didn't even try) he financed a car in my name, and went bankrupt 3 months later, leaving me as a non driver paying for his car out of my PIP (all but about £2 a month!) he also labelled me as abusive when I stood up for myself. He's also had a fixation on prostitutes and gambling. He also refuses to keep a job, I've spent ££££ on his training. He also didn't pay for car insurance and has left himself uninsured several times whilst driving about in the car I pay for.
When I left him, I received a letter of eviction a few days later.

There are women who end up in similarly shit situations with men.., there aren't many men as shit but!

No woman should feel the need to stay in situations that are bad for them, if it weren't for people's view of people not working on relationships anymore, within a year I'd have been gone.

Unfortunately if you stand up to someone who is "shouty and bossy" you often find they turn into "pushy and shovy".

And if you stand up to this it can become 'stabby' and 'strangly'. Still, as long as the kids didn't have to live through a break up eh?

Luckily I left at the first push. I wish I'd gone at the first smashed article of crockery. It is always much better to go before the abuse ramps up.