To think my son is an ungrateful brat. I have gone badly wrong

[Skatingonthinice16]

Ds, aged 7, has always been demanding and hard work in lots of ways. But as he's grown older he's becoming increasingly rude. He was very ungrateful over Christmas presents and basically anything anyone does for him or with him isn't good enough.

My elderly parents took him out for the day today on a special day out. It was expensive for a start off but that isn't why I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed because they took a day out just for him doing something he would enjoy - it wasn't something they particularly would want to do otherwise. He left the house at 9am and they've just dropped him back. As soon as he walked in he picked up his iPad. I asked him to put it down just until my parents had gone and to tell me about his day. To which he went 'yeah yeah blah blah blah, I want my iPad.'
They'd seen a show so I asked him to show me the programme and he said 'shall I tell you some facts about my life? Number one it's sooooo boring.' And then to my parents: 'are you going now so I can play on my iPad?'
He's such an ungrateful little shit. It must be my fault. I've brought him up. I've gone wrong somewhere because he's horrible. I'm so annoyed with him I don't even want to talk to him. This isn't one off behaviour. This is behaviour we see a lot now. He hasn't been allowed his iPad. However it won't stop him behaving like this again. Nothing does.

Any advice??

He sounds pretty angry and depressed actually. At 7 to say your life is that boring and miserable and to be unable to take pleasure in things is worrying. This is not excusing his being rude and the impact it has on you and the rest of the family, by the way. Is there a clue in the school difficulties? I did wonder if he might be bullied - children won't always tell you these things. Also, he seems to be struggling to adjust to a younger sibling being around. The iPad thing might also be a way of avoiding communicating as much as a distraction. Is there some way you/another adult could try and have a talk to him? Maybe not parents but someone where the relationship has a bit less vested in it. Not sure if this is helpful. No experience of kids his age myself, BUT loads of experience of having been a very unhappy 7 year old once upon a time.

I don't think you need to pull him up every time, just ignore all bad behaviour and respond to good behaviour. By ignore, I mean literally ignore. "Where's my iPad? I Said WHERE's my iPad?!" No response. "Do you know where my iPad is please?" "Yes dear, on the shelf in the kitchen."

Explain the rules in a calm, relaxed way first. "DS! You have been getting rude lately and I don't like it. It is not good for you as you get older, and it is not good for anyone around you. If you want to be heard you need to speak politely." If you need to remind him mid shout, do it in the third person- " oh dear, DS has forgotten how to be polite again, DH. What a shame."

You will have to bite your tongue and grin and bear a few tantrums, and respond positively to ridiculous over exaggerated sarcastic politeness, but eventually he will accidentally get polite.

Good luck, op!

Skating how did you deal with it at the time? What did you say?

Please OP, post this in the SN section and get some ASD specific advise. It sounds to me like your son isn't naughty at all, but needs some support.
It's common for there to be a time where things get more difficult (my son was 6 when he did this), it's usually from things getting more difficult in school and peers progressing socially in a way that he may find more challenging to keep up with.

"Forget it, let's just go" is a really adult thing to say. Do you know who he is he hearing this from? Not suggesting it's family- may be a to programme?

*TV programme

I'm another who would have been furious, just who the heck does this unpleasant and precocious child think he is, talking like that?
He needs teaching manners pdq before he has no friends and people avoid having him.

It sounds very difficult.

Have you explained why speaking this way/behaving this way is so bad? That it hurts people's feelings? Makes them feel unloved? That it makes people like him less?

How would he feel if spoken to that way etc.

Why are the waiters slow? What could be causing he problems? What can we do to help them?

What will happen if he behaves badly each time his GPS take him out.

Kids are naturally self centred - they need help to understand that their behaviour impacts the world.

BTW: No one is ever bored in this house as it inevitably and immediately leads to hoovering/dusting/sorting laundry/weeding/loading the dishwasher etc.

my son has autism and he can be exceptionally rude.

If you suspect he's on the spectrum, this may be a case of him acting out because of two things.

1. Sensory overload
2. Not being able to deal with people expectations of behaviour/gratitude.

I have to tell people that DS will likely be very blunt about gifts, its not that he is ungrateful, he just struggles to process emotions and has ZERO tact.

I do try and remind him about his manners, he is still expected to say please and thank you.. i normally find a sharp 'I beg your pardon, you were taught better than that!" normally pulls him up a bit.

Has there been any unusual stress in the house for other reasons?

Are you planning to have him assessed for ASD?

If he is responding to stress or turns out to be on the autism spectrum, one or the other may be at the root of his behaviour and should certainly be investigated.

However, his rudeness must be addressed. Rudeness of that sort is just intolerable IMO and needs to be nipped in the bud. I would sit him down and let him know that he is not to speak that way, let him know how hurt his grandparents were by his lack of gratitude. I like the idea of having him write a thank you note to them. The iPad would certainly be out of bounds for a while.

If you think he's on the spectrum, he may need explicitly teaching scripts of what to say and how to behave.
So " in a restaurant we wait quietly for food even if it takes a long time" etc

Make a booklet of these things and review them regularly.

It may well be that he is using his iPad to "decompress" after busy/social/out of the normal events. So "I need my iPad, may have been literally how it felt to him"

Hah, just seen your later post about ASD and dyspraxia... Snap! What I said above worked for my very similar son. Thought I recognised the behaviour! You need to take all the heat and stress out of life- anything which winds you up is likely to make him very tetchy indeed. We didn't do queues, garden centres, queues, waiting in restaurants, queues...

That behaviour wouldn't fly in my house.

Firstly, boys get a testosterone surge at around seven, hence why some of them do suffer from attitude overload. It's not an excuse but it is an explanation.

Secondly, there is a lot of corallation between behaviour, concentration span and screen time. Recommendations now iirc are that children spend no time at all on screens before the age of four, and no more than an hour a day before the age of fourteen. As parents we find that almost impossible to enforce (myself included,) but I have definitely noticed a difference between DS' attitude when he does and doesn't spend time on screens, but he's fourteen now.

Secondly, the iPad would be going now. Not as a punishment but because it's IMO not appropriate for a seven year old to have their own iPad especially if it leads to that kind of attitude. And it wouldn't be being earned bac. I would simply say that the iPad has been put away for the foreseeable future, and see how his behaviour changes.

He struggles with physical boundaries too. Like a much younger child. He will throw himself at you and knock you flying but refuse to let go. He's not trying to hug by the way, he's attacking. He doesn't judge no stop, that's enough, very well at all.

While he may be on the spectrum, you've said that he's had an award for best manners at school while at home he's a little sod. I'd have thought that if he's on the spectrum it would be the other way around - he'd struggle more at school because of the increased stresses there - or would be the same for both. I'd be more inclined to think that his issues relate largely to the arrival of his sister and him feeling second-best (though quite possibly he's on the spectrum too but that's not the real issue at play here) and he's playing up for attention. At school there's no impact from his sister and therefore no changed behaviour...

I have a 6yr old and when his behaviour is out of line I question him as to if he feels his behaviour is acceptable or not. Then when he says 'No/Yes' I question him WHY this is acceptable/not acceptable, personally since I started doing this I've seen a big improvement in his behaviour as he's forced to think about why he should/shouldn't do certain things rather than just seeing them as arbitrary rules he needs to follow without knowing why he must do so.

You're getting a load of answers that are assuming he is NT, when you've said you're sure he's autistic.
Using NT strategies are likely to make him feel shit about himself and possibly make the matter worse. If he is autistic he needs a different approach which will allow him to feel good about himself and not feel that he is crap. He is not a naughty boy and advice based around that is not helpful.

My very first though was "could he be on the spectrum?" I have two dc with autism. My dd could potentially speak and behave like this and it's completely and purely anxiety and having held it together for the entire so that she lets it out the minute she walks through the door. She can't queue or wait in restaurants either - we never go to busy places. The only thing I would say is my oldest was like this too but has got loads better as he's got older and learned coping strategies. I am crossing my fingers this will happen with dd too.

Good post cloud.

I think your MIL changing attitude to him may be a big problem too if it fits in time wise.

BTW, your description of your son reminds me of one of my brothers who is on the autism spectrum. He used to be extremely blunt about things, telling people he didn't want to see them, etc. But he developed some good coping strategies and his social skills are much better than they used to be. If your son does turn out to be on the autism spectrum, there are definitely options for helping him cope.

OK - I have not read the whole thread. If he is autistic seek help and push damn hard to get him assessed. Do not be fobbed off. Ignore advice about managing behaviour because normal behavioural techniques do not work with autistic children. Have a read of some stuff by Tony Attwood - this might be a good start www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Aspergers-Syndrome-Spectrum-Disorder/dp/1843106698

Look on the NAS website for more info - www.autism.org.uk/

Do not have the same expectations of him that you would of a neurotypical child. You need to understand his behaviour before you can manage it.

I'm certain he is on the spectrum.
He is very black and white with rules and that's why he is better at school I think. He's easily upset though and becomes hysterical if he thinks he's broken one of the rules. The bullies kept saying they were telling on him when he hadn't actually done anything and that was what really upset him.
I do think he's unhappy but I don't know how to fix it.

Masking in school is incredibly common. Please don't think that he is choosing to behave badly as he can hold it in at school, it doesn't work like that.

Wannabe - before we had ds2 that behaviour wouldn't fly in our house either, it makes a huge difference to how you can parent a child if their neurology doesn't match up to their expectations.

I'd take the IPad for a month. I wouldn't let him get away with rudeness.