To think my son is an ungrateful brat. I have gone badly wrong

[Skatingonthinice16]

Ds, aged 7, has always been demanding and hard work in lots of ways. But as he's grown older he's becoming increasingly rude. He was very ungrateful over Christmas presents and basically anything anyone does for him or with him isn't good enough.

My elderly parents took him out for the day today on a special day out. It was expensive for a start off but that isn't why I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed because they took a day out just for him doing something he would enjoy - it wasn't something they particularly would want to do otherwise. He left the house at 9am and they've just dropped him back. As soon as he walked in he picked up his iPad. I asked him to put it down just until my parents had gone and to tell me about his day. To which he went 'yeah yeah blah blah blah, I want my iPad.'
They'd seen a show so I asked him to show me the programme and he said 'shall I tell you some facts about my life? Number one it's sooooo boring.' And then to my parents: 'are you going now so I can play on my iPad?'
He's such an ungrateful little shit. It must be my fault. I've brought him up. I've gone wrong somewhere because he's horrible. I'm so annoyed with him I don't even want to talk to him. This isn't one off behaviour. This is behaviour we see a lot now. He hasn't been allowed his iPad. However it won't stop him behaving like this again. Nothing does.

Any advice??

Argument

Scary, this is the part of your post that I took issue with:

If he is getting awards for manners at school, he obviously knows he is misbehaving at home. ASD wouldn't necessarily mean he can't be polite (my own brother is painfully polite!) so he is doing it for other reasons.

It reads to me that you're saying he knows how to behave as he behaves at school so his outbursts are deliberate.
Sorry if I misread, but I still can't see the irony in it.

Just a warning OP you will probably struggle to get a diagnosis of ASD since you already have the Dyspraxia diagnosis. There are enough similarities between the two that specialists try to avoid diagnosing them co-morbidly.

I'm Dyspraxic, and even now as an adult I do occasionally have to check social things with my partner, because I don't quite understand why something must be done or said. I also absolutely do go on and on about things other people do that I think are because they are stupid ridiculous.
You just have to find a way to explain to him, that even if he thinks these things he can't say them to other people, because they see the world differently. He needs someone that he can talk to though, I am very lucky that my DP will let me come home from work and rant about such and such co-worker who did x, y and z, can you believe it!? Or that my colleague doesn't know that 7-16 and 16-7 are NOT THE SAME!!!
It genuinely isn't nastiness, your DS really can't understand why that child would throw a tantrum, it might sound like he's being nasty but it isn't on purpose.

I'm sure he had a lovely time out, and was very happy and grateful to be taken, he just doesn't know that what he did when he got back was wrong.

That behaviour doesn't fly in my house either.

Except it does. Because my Ds is autistic. So despite it being reprimanded and working towards a better way Ds still exhibits this behaviour.

I take Ds iPad away. I make it so that he can only have it if I give it to him. He then has to follow certain tasks to get it. That in itself is exhausting! It means I have to constantly be aware of his routine as well as mine.

Visual reminders are usually helpful for a child with ASD. I started with a simple visual timetable for Ds of things to do when he entered the house before getting the iPad. (Shoes off, coat up, say hello)
That maybe all he can manage after being out. Once he can do this without prompting add something like putting shoes in correct place and so on and so forth.

Evening all. We're just popping in as we can see this thread's getting a bit heated. Mumsnet is here to make parents' lives easier, so let's get back to supporting the OP. Peace and love.

disablist eh?

I also think PDA rather then AS. Just saying. My ds1 has a diagnosis of ASD - AS specifically mentioned. But PDA is more apt.

Hi OP, I haven't RTFT (sorry) but wanted to add my tuppence.
My 5 yo boy sounds quite similar and Im so fed up of constantly correcting him but I find if I have a serious chat at bedtime when he's focussed on me (we always have a couple of stories in bed and it's the only time he's really connected) it does sink in and I find it's much more powerful than the telling off at the time.
Also, like PPs have said I have to direct a lot of interactions in anticipation of what will happen. Especially around gifts and gratitude and the right response.
We don't have ASD diagnosis but these techniques really help us

Well what a disgusting behaved boy. So I do agree a lot with other posters,no iPad for the foreseeable future for sure,
It would be chores and having to earn days out etc in future,and back to basics as if can't act decently treat as so.
In my books ignorance and rudeness are some of the worst things that I just cannot accept it or tolerate it.
I think your very good to realise and accept he's out of order as so many try hide over it and that's half your battle won the fact you realise he's so bad.
Deffinately remove iPad totally,plan on a few months to begin to give you chance to change things and if do re allow in future limit very much it's use.
In terms changing him it's not gonna be quick but By making realise rudeness etc is never acceptable every time you will win though,I cpknow if mine did such things they'd very soon regret doing so

Random: in answer to your ponderings.

Most autistics are not male - most diagnoses are because there is a gender bias towards males - there are a large number of undiagnosed females out there (Google is your friend)

Help post diagnosis - little to none

Masking - whether there is a difference between masking or not liking school since the outcome is the same why does it matter? Behaviour is communication - listen.

Just thought I'd wade in here with my 2 pence worth. Firstly, sending you hugs, my 8yo DS has ADHD and is also on the spectrum. It's not an easy job. Yes my son can be rude but it's only because he's so blunt in the way he expresses things. He's not punished for being rude, i just make sure i explain to him that it's not very nice and how much he hurt the person and how bad he made them feel. He usually gets upset and goes to apologise after realising what he has done. As for the ipad, i wouldn't take it away from him as it will be his way of winding down. With regards to his criticism of other people, he probably has low self esteem (my son has). One of the things i try to do is be a bit over the top when he has done something nice or clever, lots of praise is key. Lastly, there is no way I would be tolerating 'nanny' behaving the way she does, made me so angry and then really sad for him. Don't beat yourself up, keep pushing for the help he needs and if you want to talk further, feel free to message me

"In my books ignorance and rudeness are some of the worst things that I just cannot accept it or tolerate it."

Funny, considering your whole post is both ignorant, and rude!

Goodness Op, you could be talking about my DD2.

She's 11 and still waiting for paediatrics to give us a diagnosis (or not). She had her assessment in July this year and her appointment isn't until June - that's how swamped the services are.

My GP really didn't want to refer us. I had to push and push and push to get her referred. I also managed to get a Family Worker who came out to see what help was needed and she got me onto a parenting course which was brilliant. I was very luck and got a 1:1 course which totally focused on DD and her issues. I found a lot of coping strategies I was already using (through trial and error) but she also helped with some things I hadn't thought of.

I know how hard it is living with the negativity and the screen thing is hard because sometimes it's just easier to leave them on it for a quiet life. But DD2 discovered Lego and that's been brilliant because she's been engrossed in building. She got 5 huge sets for Xmas and built 4 in two days. Totally engaged in it.

I find that DD is very negative once she comes home from school and I try not to ask her questions immediately. She comes in, sorts her stuff and I let her have a snack and watch TV or go on her laptop for half an hour and THEN I try and ask her what the good things about her day were. This gets her to focus on the positive rather than the negative (although she still whines about other kids being 'idiots').

Her SENCO at school is brilliant and have been very helpful in supporting her and me. One thing which has helped massively is letting her stay in at playtime OR lunchtime so she has 'downtime' to de-stress. This helps a lot as otherwise she comes home like a bottle of coke which has spent the day being shaken - ready to explode!

And just to add my DD has NO FILTER! I feel like getting a T-shirt printed with it. If it's in her head, it comes out of her mouth. We are still working on that.

Cherry

Carollocking, you sound delightful, really, you do.

Carrollocking, you see a disgusting behaved boy, I see a disgustingly ignorant and judgemental post on your part

Seems pretty clear that he's struggling with a new sibling after 6 years not having to share you or GPs. Maybe if he is ASD he is a little emotionally immature too or doesn't have well developed empathy?

Tbh a lot of the things he says I can imagine DC1 saying, he has said "can you go so I can watch TV" to GPs before and also complained things were taking so long in restaurants. He refused to say thank you for some of his presents. He's just turned 4 though, and I'm hoping he will get better not worse by 7!

I think Carol, that you haven't read the thread. Maybe do that?

Meant to say, try treating the cause not the symptoms eg helping him deal with new sibling and feeling around it rather than just punishing bad attitude.

Carollicking - you sound like my ex-partner. Interestingly, 10 months after he left my son is back to being co-operative and thoughtful with a re-built self -esteem.

I have a gorgeous littleDGNiece, the second child. She is easier than the first partly because she is the second and everyone is up to speed on baby care. Also DM is more experienced so crying is pre empted by having bed/ bottle ready. If she wasn't so experienced baby would be crying more and less lovable.
Can baby be made to appear more of a nuisance. Can DS be required to 'help' with your 'demanding' baby and then appreciated for doing that.
Your understandable annoyance is probably being picked up by him too. He's been an only child for 6 years- it's a big change poor lad.

I think they all go through a stage of stropping and ingratitude. Mine did and he's 7 now and it was nipped well in the bud. He knows the value of things now and if he's disrespectful or ungreatful i remove his consoles or iPad if it's extreme. I often remind him of what effort goes into things too and how something is valuable when somebody or we treat him. At least 5 times since Christmas he has expressed gratitude over certain gifts which is nice. This was the child who 2 years ago complained his birthday party with a bouncy castle wasn't good enough!

💐. You must be exhausted.

If I were you I'd have a stiff drink or 3 post on the SN board.

There are a few different SN's that he seems to have traits of, possibly he has several or possibly you need to narrow it down more.

It's not going to help at all to treat him like a rude, obnoxious, little shit of the NT variety if he's not. Of course having a SN doesn't give him a 'free pass' - any one with any sense knows that, but they also know that he needs strategies to cope that are more socially acceptable. He wanted out of the busy, noisy, restaurant as he was over loaded, he did/said what he thought would get him out of there, what he needs is to be taught the specific skill for that - not to be told off for not automatically knowing it. Same with the iPad, right now it's his way of 'get no away from it all'. He felt he needed it, not just wanted to play on it like an NT 7 yo. It doesn't mean he can always have the t & he certainly needs to ask more politely, but he needs to be taught exactly what that is.

He comes across as a rude, obnoxious, frustrating little shit who needs telling, but actually, he's a little 7 year totally not coping 😢

Good luck to both of you.

Oh & re the MIL, if you don't want to go NC (which I probably would) then I'd limit her visits to when DS is at school. You're unlikely to change her attitude, somsave your energy & do damage limitation instead.