To think my son is an ungrateful brat. I have gone badly wrong

[Skatingonthinice16]

Ds, aged 7, has always been demanding and hard work in lots of ways. But as he's grown older he's becoming increasingly rude. He was very ungrateful over Christmas presents and basically anything anyone does for him or with him isn't good enough.

My elderly parents took him out for the day today on a special day out. It was expensive for a start off but that isn't why I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed because they took a day out just for him doing something he would enjoy - it wasn't something they particularly would want to do otherwise. He left the house at 9am and they've just dropped him back. As soon as he walked in he picked up his iPad. I asked him to put it down just until my parents had gone and to tell me about his day. To which he went 'yeah yeah blah blah blah, I want my iPad.'
They'd seen a show so I asked him to show me the programme and he said 'shall I tell you some facts about my life? Number one it's sooooo boring.' And then to my parents: 'are you going now so I can play on my iPad?'
He's such an ungrateful little shit. It must be my fault. I've brought him up. I've gone wrong somewhere because he's horrible. I'm so annoyed with him I don't even want to talk to him. This isn't one off behaviour. This is behaviour we see a lot now. He hasn't been allowed his iPad. However it won't stop him behaving like this again. Nothing does.

Any advice??

I was a little shit like this as a teenager. I can't believe how disgusting I was towards my mum.

In retrospect, she needed to be much harder on me. I felt completely out of control and needed someone else to take charge, to put me firmly in my place. Easier said than done though...

Mmmmnnnn no,diagnosis but younsuspect he is on spectrum. Have you done anything about it or is (harsh as it may sound) an excuse for tolerating appalling behaviour? Either way ASD kids can be naughty and younsay he responds to boundaries so maybe put black and white rules in place.
Throw the iPad away . He doesn't need it. If he is bright he'll quickly find other things to do. If he isn't he could do with more time spent reading and other things with you.
Absolute rules that are clearly understood with explicit sanctions and rewards for good behaviour. A seven year old needs routine, good role modelling and to know who is adult and who is child.
It is rare that seriously ASD kids are not showing some facets at school. If he can understand rules there, he can understand them at home.

Impulsive, ADHD type behaviour is often sensory or anxiety based, which are very common with ASD.

I didn't mean to call your son a little shit, I was calling MYSELF a little shit. He's 7, I was 13. Big difference!

Please persevere with getting your DS assessed re autism. It took me years to get my son diagnosed and he's out of school now, so missed out on so much help. The rude behaviour is really hard to deal with sometimes, but it's how he is. Saying that, just keep telling him as calmly as you can, that saying XYZ is rude and explain why it's rude and how it affects the other person. His behaviour can improve, but it takes A LOT of repetition and explaining. I found that my DS naturally improved as he got older, but I often explain things over and over and reassure him that when I explain things I'm not having a go at him, but trying to help him. He usually understands that and accepts it, but I still get loud sighs and eye-rolling sometimes. He is still a teenager after all! Also, if he's on the spectrum but fairly high functioning, his behaviour can be noticeably worse when he's pushed outside his comfort zone - so going out to a show, new baby in the house, sudden change in routine - but seems to cruise along ok when left to do his own thing.

You say this attitude has emerged since his sister was born.
He has a gran who had a lot of time for him before, but when his sister arrived, was no longer interested in him, but only the baby.

Those two events are major ones and I would not be surprised if he is struggling with anger and hurt over what has happened.

I really think you would all benefit if you read the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk." I also think he needs special time with those who love him, to be praised, and shown that he is loved and valued.

Of course he needs corrected in his manners, but it does sound as if there is more going on than that in his life.

Throw the iPad away Seriously? Does this suggestion come from a parent of an autistic child?

If he can behave at school he can behave at home.

Honestly you need to start parenting him and stop being his friend. My friend is having the same issue with her DS (11)

Sometimes you have to be the bad guy. Take the iPad off him for his rude behaviour and he has to earn it back tomorrow.

Limits its usage and punish bad behaviour and make sure you follow through on threats.

I was another about to pop on to say I have hfa and my dd has asd and these behaviours sound very familiar.

Autism isn't an excuse for bad behaviour no BUT it does mean you often need very different solutions/methods of dealing with it.

Definitely head over to the sn boards op.

I spoke to school and they agreed that he was probably high functioning but said that they've basically no money so because he's coping ok at school and is very bright they wouldn't do anything. Have been to the GP three times and am awaiting a referral but it's been a while so will have to chase it up again in the new year but they also said there would be a long wait.

I totally agree with wankstain

Mil unfortunately is now all about the baby (I'm not playing with you today now x is here) which I know upsets ds and he said 'nanny's not interested in me anymore.' Which he sadly true

Well, I'd be dealing with that for a start. If you think she's putting the baby before your DS, tell her she isn't welcome until she remembers she has two grandchildren. That is so sad for your little boy. Your DD will grow up to be a 7 year old too - how's granny going to cope when she's no longer a cuddly baby? I can't understand grandparents who would behave like that.

As for the rest - you think your little boy may have asd? Then please pursue a diagnosis. Meanwhile - as has already been suggested - ask for advice on the SN boards. There is no point in "punishing" him if it's something beyond his control - yes, he may need to learn boundaries and acceptable behaviour but any discipline has to be appropriate to his needs.

Please don't think of him as an ungrateful brat; he's already been rejected by your mil. He needs to know you're on his side

Whyyyyy do people think it's OK to say "is he an only child?" as if this might explain everything!?!? Folks, it's not a guarantee of an unruly, spoilt, ungrateful child. Come on!

Yet I can generally spot one within three lessons. Also fairly accurate on youngest in the family or who has a massive age gap. I don't know how, it's just quite clear having taught for so long.

OP, I worked in an inclusive school with a lot of children on the spectrum for many years and I agree with you. The sheer terror of being seen to break rules is very typical of some of the children I've worked with and goes a long way to explain why he's a lot more polite at school. Two weeks of unstructured time at home with different things happening daily, even hourly, will be absolutely the most difficult for him.

If rules work for him, put some in place. Chunk down why you want him to do. Give him the star chart with clear expectations and reasons for getting stars. Whilst I like the clicker idea, I've never seen it used with children, only dogs and horses! Children can speak and reason, so while it's a fine idea, perhaps to the verbal route first.

I think it will be very hard to maintain a very structured environment at home, but if you can, put some things in place for him which must be adhered to and reduce screen time, it's far too easy to allow children on the spectrum to withdraw into devices, this really needs limiting, IMO. Talk to school and see where he excels, the SENCO should be able to give you some good ideas on how to cope with his time at home. Do please post on the SEND board.

Throw the iPad away . He doesn't need it

He probably really does actually. So don't do that!

You can use it motivationally though. Earning time on it helps my children to focus.

Potnoodle, have you seen that this child very likely has ASD?? It's not the case if so that "if he can behave at school he can behave at home".

Bearing down hard on kids is not the only parenting solution, especially when kids (quite possibly) have additional needs.

My sympathies op, sounds like he is acting out to the various things that are happening this past year or so.

My dc had a phase of being extremely rude, I perfected a glare and immediately take whatever was in her hand at the time, usually her game pad.
She knows straight away and apologises then I give it back and explain it's not nice to be rude and It has consequences.
If it's extreme the thing gets removed until the next morning.
She is now quite well behaved and polite but I expect the phase to come back around again.

Children do think the world revolves around them in a way and more so in this day and age but they sometimes need to be reminded where the line is of them being loved and well treated but that they can't take advantage of that fact by being disrespectful.

If it is asd then

If he can behave at school he can behave at home

Isn't true at all.

I'm an autistic adult and I need some serious downtime after being out all day. Most people can't even tell I have hfa.

But after all the stress and anxiety of

It would seem to me he needs help more than punishment. He is a little lad on the spectrum dealing with a massive change in his life. He has just had a day which he has found fairly overwhelming in terms of sensory overload and general uncontrollable randomness. Basically he is empty now; just parroting phrases to be left alone, stick his head in screen world and recharge.

I think your job is to teach him the social rules, make him fully aware of the consequences of breaking them (in a long term way, ie people not liking him) and help him to find better distancing strategies than using a screen.

This kid is getting an rough ride on here. OP's household isn't a happy one and giving only half the story that he got a new sister without sharing just how this has impacted on OP's own mental health and relationship with her son is unfair. So posters will pile in and slate him when it is far more complicated than that.

Skating You will need to be very persistent. CAHMS is underfunded and they do try to get kids off their books. Once you do get to see them do not let them discharge you if you are not satisfied. It took me years to get DX for my child.

PS: you may not get a diagnosis easily at primary (round here you would) but please push for a school which has the staffing to deal with him for secondary and support for him now. He will benefit from specialists.

And autism can lead to a lack of tact, but it does not mean that someone is naturally rude.

Sadly mil has the emotional intelligence of a frying pan and only sees what she wants. She loves all babies as she can cart them round and do what she wants. A 7 year old is a little more vocal. Particularly my 7 year old... consequently she is all about the baby.
I feel sad for ds too and then he is vile and I feel cross. Then sad again that I've been cross.
He had a sponsored snow leopard as part of his Christmas gift and when he opened it his face lit up and he said 'this is a good gift because it's helping someone else not just me.'

My ds is HFASD and also displays similar traits. He is no bother at school and enjoys the structure it offers. We are finding the festive break really hard as he find it hard to cope with the change of routine. He can also be very rude and go by but usually with those closest to him. He shows exemplary manners at school. But the asd nurse says this is normal. They are trying so hard to be socially accepted at school and they don't have to try at home as they unconditional loved.

An autistic child reacts to the world around them. From what you've said OP, that sounds like what is happening.

Does he apply the rules of society to everyone else stringently? Yet, strangely unable to apply them to his own actions?

If so, he sounds like a younger version of my son who has Aspergers. Extremely bright, academically able...but, emotions don't marry up to the Interlect.

When you asked about his day, he was probably already overwhelmed. A full day out was probably too much in one go. His senses would have been heightened after the show. So when he was faced with a busy/loud restaurant it tipped him over the edge...thus leading to negative comments. The staff were idiots etc. He reacted to the chaos. He had asked to leave. As it was causing him anxiety.

Home life will become worse as more is expected of him at school.