To think my son is an ungrateful brat. I have gone badly wrong

[Skatingonthinice16]

Ds, aged 7, has always been demanding and hard work in lots of ways. But as he's grown older he's becoming increasingly rude. He was very ungrateful over Christmas presents and basically anything anyone does for him or with him isn't good enough.

My elderly parents took him out for the day today on a special day out. It was expensive for a start off but that isn't why I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed because they took a day out just for him doing something he would enjoy - it wasn't something they particularly would want to do otherwise. He left the house at 9am and they've just dropped him back. As soon as he walked in he picked up his iPad. I asked him to put it down just until my parents had gone and to tell me about his day. To which he went 'yeah yeah blah blah blah, I want my iPad.'
They'd seen a show so I asked him to show me the programme and he said 'shall I tell you some facts about my life? Number one it's sooooo boring.' And then to my parents: 'are you going now so I can play on my iPad?'
He's such an ungrateful little shit. It must be my fault. I've brought him up. I've gone wrong somewhere because he's horrible. I'm so annoyed with him I don't even want to talk to him. This isn't one off behaviour. This is behaviour we see a lot now. He hasn't been allowed his iPad. However it won't stop him behaving like this again. Nothing does.

Any advice??

He had a sponsored snow leopard as part of his Christmas gift and when he opened it his face lit up and he said 'this is a good gift because it's helping someone else not just me.'

This is just lovely of him. Really sweet, thoughtful and altruistic.

I won't try and advise you on ASD, as it's not something I have experience/knowledge of, and there are others here with good advice for you.

What I will stress, though, is how hurtful and damaging your MIL's attitude to him will be. Having been cast aside for a newer, shinier, more exciting sibling is something that could affect him for the rest of his life, if you are not careful. It sounds like you are aware of this.

What I would do is raise this very directly with MIL, giving concrete examples of the offending behaviour, explaining to her how hurtful and damaging it is for him (you may need to do this in the way you would try to teach your DS empathy, by the sound of it: 'imagine how you would feel, if...'), and then finish by saying you really value MIL's relationship with your DC but you are afraid you won't be able to have her round while she is intent on playing favourites.

Obviously this will not go down well with her. No doubt you will get tears/an explosion from her. She may even genuinely not realise what she is doing. But you need to stand firm on boundaries, and what treatment you will tolerate, for the sake of both DC (the golden child role will not do your DD any favours either. Assuming this lasts once she can display her own personality and answer back).

Personally,I think he might be testing his other grandparents to see if they too are only interested in the new baby.

I started reading this thread thinking 'ungrateful little tyke' and have ended it thinking your MIL is a fucking bitch and really feeling for him.

Although it will be worth a sit down chat about what behaviour you expect and what he can expect if he does x and y. Also, a safe word that you have to show him that he has crossed a line and to wind it in a bit; and a safe word for him when he feels as if it is too much for him.

What does he watch on TV? My kids are now older, but when they were that age I did notice they picked up on the attitude of kids in American TV shows who are disrespectful if not rude to their parents.
I think a lot of the so-called autism traits you are lsiting are not uncommon in a typical NT 7 yo boy.

going against the grain a bit, although i agree he is coming across as very rude in his behaviour. In my experience of working with Children and Young People in a mental Health context, children can find it difficult to express their feelings. This is even more the case for young people who may be on the autistic spectrum, as identifying emotions and feelings can be really challenging.
They will commonly described being 'bored' when in actual fact they are lonely or sad. I wonder if he may be sad or lonely (in the context of new sister , being picked on at school) and it is actually a real struggle going out and 'acting happy' and he would prefer to withdraw.
I think I saw that you feel he was perhaps on the autistic spectrum, in which case a fun day out for most could actually be really challenging and he just wanted to be on his own after an exhausting day in uncomfortable social situations and heightened sensory stimulation. He still demonstrated bad manner in his response but perhaps this reflects a lack of empathy that would be in keeping with your suspicions around diagnosis?
I'm not excusing his behaviour ,necessarily ,but offering an alternative explanation to him just being an unusually rude boy

katy that just shows how little you know about asd and hfa, many children mask very well at school, is at home in their safe environment where you see the problems.
Actually Dixie I know a lot about ASD on account of actually having ASD myself. And if you'd bothered to read my later post you'd see that I acknowledged exactly why I'd said what I'd originally said.

So he talks way beyond his years: do you have any suspicions he may be in the spectrum? That is no excuse and obviously he needs to learn manners but it could be an explanation which could help him and the adults around him to learn how to interacts.

Hi. You mentioned that it's got worse since his sister was born. Could it be that he has had a bad reaction about not being the centre of the universe. Did he start acting like this when she was born and as time was limited he only felt he got attention when he acted badly. Could it now have become a habit and so acts up to get attention even though the attention is bad. Any attention is good. It can then become a way of being.
If this behaviour isn't displayed in school it does sound like a reaction. He may not understand why he's doing what he does. I wouldn't put his behaviour to being spoilt or too much media. It sounds like there is another issue going on.

I don't think he was actually bored. He said it in a sarcastic way because we'd asked him to put his iPad down just until his grandparents had gone. They were only stopping ten minutes. Thing is he used to manage without it before Mil bought it and I do feel his behaviour is largely worse since having it so I'm inclined to limit it as much as I can. Mil goes on about it being the best present anyone has ever given him as he loves it so much. He does but now he doesn't want to play like he used to. He would rather passively be on his iPad.

He doesn't watch that much tv. He likes horrid Henry (sigh) and Star Wars but he's not that bothered otherwise. I can't think of anything else he watches actually.

DS1 is 12, has ASD and is exactly like this.
I go full tech ban until he decides to use his manners.

(Before anyone says anything yes he does know there are ways you shouldn't talk to people and I'd never punish a meltdown or something I know he hasn't been taught, but replying "fuck off" to being asked what he would like for lunch does get a tech ban.)

ASD children need very strong routines which is why school probably works for him. A day out can be very difficult for them to handle. Plus the sensory overload of a show and eating out. My son will always go straight to his bedroom when he has been out for a time to be by himself. He could not cope otherwise and would react like your son. You might find if he had that zone out time he would then be able to be more polite. It sounds like he has a lot on his plate, with a lot of massive changes going on. ASD children do need different parenting and what seems like rudeness isn't. They just aren't coping and need time to decompress almost. Do you have a local ASD group who could support you. I have a son with ASD and I also work with them so I would be really happy to talk through some strategies that I have used or seen used that can help. I also have some really good websites and books. i found when I stopped trying to get my son to react the way I thought he should and tried some different ideas everyone's life including my sons got a whole lot less stressful and his behaviour improved markedly.

Randomer - that is incredibly ignorant

skating the superior attitude isn't great, but in fairness, there are plenty of adults with similar, though they will be more adept at hiding it!

He is only 7. He has time to learn to be more grateful/humble/aware of others' misfortunes etc. You can teach him this, e.g. by pointing out stuff like his classmate not being a lesser person because he isn't as good at maths. We are all good at different things. Maybe the boy is good at sport, or is very kind to others, etc....(the latter might be an important one to stress as being a virtue to aspire to).

To foster gratitude, have you tried doing anything like a daily gratitude exercise, though don't for heavens sake refer to it as such? An example would be to make time to chat through his day when you are tucking him in at night, and ask him to name three good things that happened that day. You won't see a difference immediately, but keep at it, and over time it will add up to a more optimistic, grateful disposition, as it will focus his mind more on the good in life, and away from his discontents. Whinging about what goes wrong and failing to notice the good appears to me to be fairly common at this age. He might just need a little help to broaden his view.

He is his own worst enemy in a lot of ways.
It's like he wants to prove that everyone likes dd more. So he's horrid and then everyone gets cross with him and then he can say 'see, everyone likes her more than me.'
But making a fuss of him, praising him, spending extra time with him... it doesn't seem to make much difference.

I agree with others that while his behaviour is unacceptable I feel for him with respect to your MiL and his situation in general. I cringe now but I remember developing a really superior attitude at one point when I was a bit older than your son, I was actually incredibly insecure and this was my way of over compensating.

Especially since you say he has some ASD traits (whether or not he'd be officially diagnosed) it might be that his behaviour is a failure on his part to deal with difficult situations. I would definitely give him as many positive alternatives as possible. So if he needs some time to chill out alone after a busy day give him a polite way of asking for it, then guarantee he'll get some time to chill out without anyone bothering him. Likewise when he's out maybe he can have some time to decompress - listening to some music for 5 minutes or whatever if that might help him?

I imagine the more he gets the impression people see him as spoilt and obnoxious the more he'll live up to the image.

O.K., so in the past year he has acquired a new sibling, his grandmother has pushed him aside in favour of the new baby, he has been bullied and socially isolated at school, you have experienced PND. I would say that is quite a lot for him to cope with. If he is also on the autism spectrum, it may be completely overwhelming.

His rudeness does need to be addressed. But it sounds as though this is really not an issue of discipline but rather a little boy who is struggling to cope.

And yet, many only children go on to become fully functioning, caring, pleasant adults. hmm. Some even have, you know, friends and go on to have families of their own

Don't be stupid. At no point did I say these children can't function. I said I can spot them, not that they're odd or unable to function normally. Ffs.

Oh bore off random. Clearly you're not affected or you wouldn't display such painful ignorance.

He is rude. Make excuses or deal with it - your choice. You are the parent and the buck stops with you.

If it weren't for the age difference I would swear DS1 has been living a double life at your house, Skating.

He has HFA and dyspraxia. My advice is to get pushing with the GP and ask about the school's SENCO.

I will say, though, all the 'yeah yeah blah blah blah' stuff, calling wait staff idiots and asking grandparents to leave would result in major consequences in this house.

We sometimes make allowances for bluntness but there is a difference between that and deliberate rudeness.

Skating - we have given up trying to stick labels in DS and are just trying to help him cope with his quirks. He can't draw either and can't replicate even simple drawings - this was something he was tested on. It's more about finding coping strategies- he prints rather than does joined up handwriting for example and goes to a special club at school lunchtimes for those who struggle socially. He's also met a boy who ho is very similar to him and they are quite happy boring each other.

We found that we had to explain repeatedly what was appropriate and what wasn't. At 7, he wouldn't have understood that commenting loudly on slow service or demanding an iPad was rude. He still struggles with that, to be fair. Talk to your son about what to expect and how you there expect he should behave - he'll get there eventually.

Yes Dot I know. I feel for him too but I'm at a loss as to what to do.
I don't want him to be unhappy but I feel his behaviour is unacceptable. I know the unhappiness and the ASD is probably causing the behaviour to be more challenging but how do I right the unhappiness?
I guess a return to the GP in the new year for a start.
Although he has undoubtably had a tough year he's still got parents and family that love him and look after him. He's had time spent with him although not as much as when he was an only child. We've tried to keep things as normal as we can. He's had play dates outside of school with friends to try and help him socially. I spoke to school about his lack of friends and the teacher said that he struggles because he is more mature in his behaviour and outlook at school than most of the other boys in the class who are silly. She said ds doesn't want to be silly and he is highly motivated and applies his vast knowledge. She said all the other children say he's clever - yes but that doesn't mean they like him does it?

skating I found getting the diagnoses very helpful in helping to parent my autistic children more appropriately. With it, you have something to focus on, a strategy. Maybe that would help you not be so irritated by his behaviours. I get it though I really do. I let my son open a big present from under the tree to shut up his incessant ranting about some obscure youtube channel on Christmas Eve. I literally couldn't listen for a moment longer.

could you take the ipad off him for a more permanent length of time. this short punishment periods are good but he knows he'll get it back and so I don't think behaviours would change.
he will moan to hell for the first few days,even week.but say if he had a whole month off you might start to see more 7 year old behaviour coming back. get him to do stupid young things again.more carefree. if hes bored long enough without the ipad he will go back to being young and silly maybe?
could his boredom and trouble with other kids be he over educated language etc due to what he learns online.kids leanr so much online.too fast. and at 7 when hes so confused and growing and leanring who he is,it might be must too much.
at that age I was certainly only allowing a supervised game for half hour or something.never one to herself or for general things like surfing the web.
pick him up straight away on the rude bits.but do the fun silly young boy stuff with him too so he can be unthinking and ok with that again.
he sounds a bit scared and confused.let him now your there.but also that you have his back on boundaries too and wont let them slip.
this isn't you. well from what ive read anyway. the fact your on here writing what hes doing wrong shows you know he doing wrong lol.
so its not something your letting him do or teaching him. its some crossed wires that fingers crossed youll be able to iron out.
don't be hard on you.
there can be the most loving family on earth and there child might get addictions.or mental health problems or take things differently one day and it changes everything.it doesn't make the family wrong or the parents crap,its in these familys and with this love from parents that they get through.becasue whatever goes wrong the person its happening to always then still has support to guid em back to the right/light.