To think my son is an ungrateful brat. I have gone badly wrong

[Skatingonthinice16]

Ds, aged 7, has always been demanding and hard work in lots of ways. But as he's grown older he's becoming increasingly rude. He was very ungrateful over Christmas presents and basically anything anyone does for him or with him isn't good enough.

My elderly parents took him out for the day today on a special day out. It was expensive for a start off but that isn't why I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed because they took a day out just for him doing something he would enjoy - it wasn't something they particularly would want to do otherwise. He left the house at 9am and they've just dropped him back. As soon as he walked in he picked up his iPad. I asked him to put it down just until my parents had gone and to tell me about his day. To which he went 'yeah yeah blah blah blah, I want my iPad.'
They'd seen a show so I asked him to show me the programme and he said 'shall I tell you some facts about my life? Number one it's sooooo boring.' And then to my parents: 'are you going now so I can play on my iPad?'
He's such an ungrateful little shit. It must be my fault. I've brought him up. I've gone wrong somewhere because he's horrible. I'm so annoyed with him I don't even want to talk to him. This isn't one off behaviour. This is behaviour we see a lot now. He hasn't been allowed his iPad. However it won't stop him behaving like this again. Nothing does.

Any advice??

Poor you - my 7 year-old DD is probably ADHD... done the dyslexia dx this year and am trying to summon the energy to get the ADHD one done this year.

I've been battling her behaviour since she was 18 months and it's gruelling.

It doesn't help when people with compliant children assume that you haven't tried the exact same techniques as they do, or that you have lower standards for behaviour. I'm ashamed at how much I judged other parents before I had my DD - children are not the blank mouldable canvas I expected.

We've been getting specialist help on and off since she was 18 months and a lot of the advice was on managing the amount of negative feedback that was being given. It's very hard when your child misbehaves constantly to not be constantly telling them off and ending up in a vicious circle and exhausted. DD is also very well-behaved at school which is both a huge relief and utterly infuriating.

1-2-3 Magic has been helpful at times. We were also advised to heavily bribe for good behaviour and reward everything positive, whilst ignoring all bad behaviour. It was successful in breaking some major problem areas.

Push as hard as you can for help - does your son's primary school have an Ed Psych on the staff? I've been able to book to see them every now and then when I get to breaking point and need someone to point me in the right direction again.

This book is also really interesting reading and very reassuring for parents: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005G37SKQ/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

It deals mainly with ADHD, but much of the information may be useful to parents of children on the AS as well.

I wish you both luck.

Hi Skating

My DD(5) sounds very like your boy and has had a diagnosis...but she is not autistic. She has Dyspraxia and Sensory Processing Disorder. (And she is registered blind but that's a whole other story).

Because of her sight issues she has had a lot of access to developmental staff from a young age so I'm fairly confident that her diagnosis is accurate. She has a frighteningly mature vocabulary, an incredible memory, can be pedantic and unbending. She is really only interested in speaking to adults and is a bit scathing of children (though she loves to play by herself). She can be blunt and physically rough with me (climbing on me rather than attacking as you describe).

A couple of strategies have helped us:

• Tell him how to act. Before we leave the house I tell her how I want her to behave generally but I also specifically tell her what to say at the beginning and end of each interaction. So...'when we go into the cafe I want you to say please when you ask for you drink'. 'when you get your present from auntie you must say "thank you, I love it". For a while I worried about learning manners by rote but I ultimately decided that manners are basically just rules anyway so why not. It has made life simpler socially and I do it every time.

-I don't know much about autism tbh but with dyspraxia and spd I have found screen time can be less than helpful. It seems to fill her up with info and stimulation. She's quite obsessive about her little figurines so I get her to play with them and it's a better outcome

• I do give out if she's obviously cheeky or rude but a pp suggested positive reinforcement and I would really echo that. Unless she's done something properly naughty ignore the low level stuff and praise good behaviour. This is more for you than him. I found I didn't want to be constantly sniping at my child so praising the good was a better way for all of us to move forward.

Good luck. Kids like this are a challenge but they're also rare gems.

No useful advice, just sending you and him a great big hug.

Because so much of what the op said made it clear the boy is likely to be autistic, and the op later said she was sure he is and he's been referred to be assessed. Those of us with autistic children have recognised this and have given more useful advice than the NT advice the op was getting.

Your post said more than that, and the tone you used was quite unpleasant.

That was to Randomer.

Do you think he is copying this behaviour from someone? TV? Family? Books?

I think you need to constantly pull him up on it- never let anything go and be firm and consistent. Be black and white about it- people who speak rudely are unlikeable. You know to not speak like that.

If he is getting awards for manners at school, he obviously knows he is misbehaving at home. ASD wouldn't necessarily mean he can't be polite (my own brother is painfully polite!) so he is doing it for other reasons.

I know you say the GPs have ignored him for new sibling- but today after a great day look at his behaviour. Is it more a general pushing of boundaries and assertion of himself as 'older' as the new sibling has redefined his position in the family? Maybe the moving up a year in school he sees himself as more grown up?

Havent read all of the thread but dont know if you have looked at PDA? My friends son has this and all sounds very familiar

Scary, have another look through the thread where many posters have talked about masking.
Also, just because your brother comes across as painfully polite doesn't mean this is the standard for ASD - if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person.

katy if you know so much about hfa then you should know that many children mask at school and display different behavior at home in their safe space, they've been trying to fit in all day with all the noise/sensory stimulation etc
And because you don't feel that way or have that reaction doesn't mean that other people feel the same. It's very very common in young children.

Dixie, are you trying to be goady towards me? It's not a case of 'if I know so much' it's a fact that I was diagnosed by an NHS psychologist a couple of years ago with Asperger's. I've had Asperger's all my life - that's quite a long time! I've also (like many people who are diagnosed as autistic as an adult) read a lot of books on it & been very active on forums run by autistic people for autistic people. So don't try to imply that I'm making it up because I'm not. I masked extremely well as a child and initially as an adult. But now as an older adult it's getting harder and harder to cope. I acknowledged that I found school harder and that for me home is my safe place. Yes it can be the opposite for a lot of autistic people, it varies, that's why it's called a spectrum. I hid all my difficulties at school, kept my mouth shut and my head down. It wasn't much easier at home so I went into my head to cope instead. Now I'm on my own in my own space I can release all the tension at home. If I was a child or had someone here then no doubt my behaviour at home would be seen as challenging but to me it's not, it's just my safe place. And I'm really sorry if I don't manage to see things from everyone else's point of view but you know something - a lot of autistic people struggle with that. Perhaps if YOUR understanding of autism was better you'd get that without being told.
I hope that if the OP's son is on the spectrum then he gets an early diagnosis. I wish I'd had one.

Queen, and that's your advice bearing in mind he's most likely autistic?

Nice, really nice

@CloudPerson I hit refresh but it seems I am pages behind from when I was reading this earlier! As I scrolled up and saw OPs and other replies I am now cringing at my response. I do know about masking, and FWIW still do think it is worth considering this isn't that, and persevering with correcting him, as masking isn't always what is taking place. Hope that makes sense!

Are you always this helpful, Queen?

You should consider starting your own talk show now that Oprah has buggered off.

Yes it makes sense, thank you for coming back and explaining.

I feel for you op. Your heart is in the right place.
I think screen time should definitely be 'earned' and maybe kept to the weekend.
My dd is 19 and heavily dependant on using her phone/ipad/netflix/amazon prime and you wonder if there is a human being there. She shows very little gratitude for anything. I think the problem is that kids have just too much stuff. I would advise early intervention as the problem is only going to get worse and you need the support of your partner to keep consistent rules in place.

Have you actually read the whole thread QueenLizIII ?
Your comments are singularly unhelpful given that it is highly probable that this child is autistic.

And ironically, my point about my brother was the exact point you made back to me- so many people assume ASD means bad manners- when what you've said is exactly true. If you have met someone with ASD, you've met someone with ASD. You can't expect it to manifest itself the same way everytime.

I have read the posts. I will go over it again and look carefully at the detailed ones.

I was questioning why after a busy day and an outburst the 7 year old was being described as on the spectrum. Maybe Mum thinks this is the case and is seeking diagnosis, hopefully this will be helpful.

There are a million other factors at play here....the new baby, the dad who is often working long hours, the stress of a meal with Grandparents and also the options of ill/tired.

Perhaps its one one or the other.

I dont see how anything I have said warrents unpleasantness and deleting of my comments.

Some good advice here, thank you. Inwill definitely be looking at some of the books recommended.

I do find his behaviour frustrating and it makes me angry at times. I just don't understand him. But I guess maybe he doesn't understand why I don't understand him.
I used to be a teacher. I don't think this is as simple as spoiled behaviour because it's constant and he doesn't seem to realise what he's doing wrong. Nor can he manipulate situation in the way that perhaps some children can. But he's very very very hard work. He could start an arguement in an empty room and that is very tiresome. He always has to be right, he always has to win, what he does always has to be best. I play a lot of games with him and he is bow slightly better at losing but only slightly. I know lots of children are sore losers but this goes beyond that. If he loses we used to get hysterical crying and him saying he's hopeless and it's pointless. He's not quite as bad now depending on the game but it's taken a lot of input and modelling how to win / lose gracefully.

Well said Shurley, exactly what I was thinking. Such a cliche question! My 7 year old DD is an only child and there is no way she would speak to anyone like that.

You were deleted for the disablist 'too many syndromes' comment.