To be irritated by the suggestion that their impending ivf baby is 'more precious'?

[DorotheaHomeAlone]

DH and I have been very lucky in the fertility stakes and I have conceived two babies easily in the past two years and carried both to term.

A couple of other family members have unfortunately experienced miscarriages and BIL and his wife have recently conceived after 2+ years of infertility and treatment. We are obviously thrilled for them. They've always been very supportive and involved with our kids and we hope to return the favour.

But another member of DH's family has made several comments over Christmas about how great it is that BIL and his wife are the ones having a baby 'and not DH and Dorothea again'. Also how extra 'precious' and 'loved' this new baby will be.

We only have 2! And I am really irritated by the insinuation that we have jumped the queue by having a second while they were trying unsuccessfully or that our babies are less precious because they were easily conceived.

Didn't say anything obviously but can't see the need for these divisive comments.

I'm only seeing one ignorant poster here.

mouth are you a troll?
You sound like a troll.
I am not troll hunting. I am asking directly.

With no infertility problems To get preg most couples have pleasurable sex and bam they are pregnant

For someone with infertility problems after ttc month after month after month - then test after year with no hint of a bfp

Sex becomes a chore. Must be x day to try and conceive and the fun pleasure etc disappears

Meanwhile friends and relatives announce pregnancy after pregnancy - which personally as someone who suffered from infertility for 10yrs - I found hard and wished it was me

why wasn't it me ? - ESP when some had 2nd/3rd baby in that time

But I was always happy for them and said congrats and went to their baby showers and brought pressies and saw and cuddles and loved their babies

Meanwhile while my heart was breaking

So you start investigations and get prodded about - laying back with kegs spread - dildo cam up you - or Op's to flush your tubes out or cameras down your belly button to see inside you

Dignity def gone by now

To then go for ivf. If you are lucky you may get it in NHS. If not then Have to save /loans etc to find £6/7k if in U.K. Going abroad is Cheaper

So you start ivf. Doctors control your body. So they put you into a mini menopause so hot flushes - raging tempers and hormones everywhere - you rage at your ever loving partner - or cry in their arms. Or both

You then start having twice daily injections - varies for how long average 10/12/14 days depending on what results the scans show

So more hormones and body can feel it is going to explode with huge tummy full of extra follicles - again you may cry or rage as you just can't help yourself

Meanwhile always making sure the injections are at the right time so clock watching and if away then realising you need a mini refrigerator plugged in your car to keep drugs at right temp - so we had to rush to currys

You need several scans during cycle so can be hard to fit round work - ESP if you don't want anyone to know

Once clinic says you are at the right peak time you have eggs removed. Some find pain free. My experiences awful and felt insides being ripped out and df could hear me screaming and crying and in pain next room - but couldn't do anything - which made him feel totally useless

Once eggs out then clinic tell you your no. They get fertilised and you go home hoping and praying that every egg will take. Often it's half - they ring you up following day and you cry as some haven't taken but you rejoice if lucky that some are fertilised and developing and splitting as they should

3/5 days later you return and if lucky have 1-2 put back in and then that's the hard bit done .......

Not it isn't. The 2 week wait is the hard bit. Every twinge cramp bleed boob tingle etc you think is that implantation /is that signs of pregnancy or is that my period on the way

The signs and symptoms are the same due to the amount of hormones you have had over the past 4/6w

Every wee you wipe anxiously hoping no blood - you worry you do too much. You worry about lying down relaxing.

Eventually you take the test and omg the line is there but faint and you are amazingly pregnant and you are in delight - often don't
Believe it and then the 9mths of constant worry happen. Will there be a mc. Will the heart show on the scan

Yes sure many people worry if preg naturally but with ivf most ladies and dads don't enjoy preg as always worry something could happen

As if does then not just we can have enjoyable sex and bam
Pregnant

Or you take the test and its negative. Your whole world collapses and you and partner cry / feel your heart has been ripped out again and the past 4/6w have been for nothing and again if couldn't get NHS (I couldn't) and went private your heart sinks thinking I've just spent £5/6/7k on a single cycle and have nothing to show for it (unless lucky and have some left to freeze - but I didn't in cycle 1&2) and have to pay the loan back etc - meanwhile if and when the couple are strong enough to try ivf again then need to save /borrow more thousands of pounds

To take a risk again if literally throwing money away if ivf doesn't work as having sex isn't going to work

That's the emotions of someone going through ivf and why if successful their baby a miracle and so precious

Against the couple of have enjoyable pleasure of sex and then preg

But as said previously doesn't mean the baby will be more loved

Just precious and a miracle due to all of the above via ivf

No im not a troll. Because I have different views to the majority on this post? I just have very strong ideas about this from experience. Those who are fertile without issues are vilified and those who receive treatment to get pregnant (if it works) are viewed as more deserving and better more loving parents.
Society seems to openly support infertile people to behave however they want and it can be passed over because they are infertile. There are greater hardships. Far greater. Yet no other group would be allowed to behave and embrace the victim label with such support.
My views are clear. I'm obviously on my own in this belief and I am fine with that. I know what I have seen and experienced and infertility is
Not what's it's pumped up to be.

My views are clear. I'm obviously on my own in this belief and I am fine with that. I know what I have seen and experienced and infertility is
Not what's it's pumped up to be.

No-you have seen your SIL deal with her infertility. You have not had to deal with not being able to have your own kids because you already have them.

You actually don't know that.

No im not a troll. Because I have different views to the majority on this post?

No because you are expressing extreme views on a sensitive subject and your views are seemingly based on your experience with one person.

No one is 'vilified'. Infertile people are not allowed to behave as they like and they are not supported by everyone. What utter bollocks.

Women who are struggling to concieve are expected to feel joyful for others otherwise they are 'bitter'. They are expected to go through invasive, unpleasant treatment and be so grateful that they shouldn't complain about the pain.
They are supposed to take the constant 'why haven't you had a baby yet' questions with good grace because 'people don't mean to be rude'

You have even had the cheek to co-opt the experience of bereaved parents to make your point.

I am a bereaved parent and I am of the belief that the group I am a member of has a lot in common with people dealing with infertility.

We get the same sort of pressures put on us to behave in a certain way, the same sort of insensitive questions, the same sort of stupid things said to us 'be grateful for what you have', 'count your blessings', 'be strong', 'move on', 'find something to take your mind off it' and the favourite 'why don't you adopt?'

If you want to be bitter and unpleasant about people who can't conceive easily or have to suffer the loss of their pregnancies don't use what has happened to many of us to justify that.

I don't class bereavement of a child and infertility as the same thing. People in all walks of life deal with stupid and insensitive comments and have to face thier fears/ challenges and have them thrown in their face on a daily basis.
I'm secure in my opinion and won't be changing it based on anyone's point here. Have a lovely new year everyone

OK, did you struggle to conceive your children?

You might know your own experience of infertility but if you spend any time on the infertility board I suspect you will find you are very very much in the minority.

Auto search shows you have or are very shortly about to have three children. Thaf is s very different position to many infertile couples who never have their own babies.

mouthof you keep repeatedly stating that there are far worse things than infertility.

Like what? It is acknowledged by the medical field that those going through infertility suffer similar trauma to those who've received a cancer diagnosis. A recent medical study identified that a large percentage of those who suffer a miscarriage suffer ptsd as a result.

What are all of these 'worse' things? Who has decided what the hierarchy is? You?

Your views are abhorrent and completely ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself.

For context, it's taken me years to get anywhere near having my own family (I am 20 weeks pg, 39 yo) after multiple miscarriages and infertility. DH and I have been through some rough times (and very happy times) over the years, not being able to have a family being the very worst. It can completely break people. At times, I've felt so sad to the core of my bones. I've been there, you haven't - ergo your nasty views are based on complete ignorance.

I don't class bereavement of a child and infertility as the same thing
Nor do I. They don't have to be the same to be painful, heartbreaking, unbearable.

My point is that you do not get you use my experience to justify your nasty behaviour towards others.

It only adds to the difficulties already faced by bereaved parents. We have quite enough accusations of playing 'top trumps' to deal already.

And ha.ha at 'perceived' loss. Second tri miscarriage, delivering the pregnancy after hours of awful pain and being in hospital for two days. Leaving hospital without your baby while others are leaving with theirs.

And that was just one - I've had others.

'Perceived' hey? 😐

I had two dc easily conceived, problem free pregnancies and easy labours. I was lucky.

In my second marriage I then had 3 miscarriages, still birth of twin girls and a further 5 pregnancies that ended in miscarriage.

I remember telling a family member that I was pregnant again (5th time after still birth) and being hurt when she said 'oh well I won't hold my breath with your experience'.

People say stupid things. We feel things so deeply personal.

I never went on to have another living child and one of my two living children was then taken from me by cancer aged 18.

Life is hideously unfair. Some people are lucky and are not touched by tragedy. Others seem to have a whole heap of tragedy poured on them. Infertility is hideous. Miscarriage is hideous. Child loss is hideous.

In a world when so many things go wrong and when someone has knowingly struggled to conceive a successful pregnancy is to be exciting and considered more miraculous for the struggle.

I don't really think the person was saying the child would be any more precious. I am sure they were expressing relief that the couple may get their happy ending after all. Albeit said in a clumsy way.

Let the comment go - there's worse things that happen than a clumsy comment.

Yes lighten up FFS! I'm not minimising anyone's feelings... but I think I have a right to be happy I conceived naturally... and maybe shout it from the roof tops! I'm happy!

It's nobody's fault... why can't I talk about being able to do it naturally?

And I don't have a clue but I empathise as that's all I can do. I have friends who have fertility issues... tried for years with different treatments and were successful through IVF and have two gorgeous boys.

I've watched my sister suffer through miscarriages and surgery to remove an ectopic pregnancy.

Shout from the rooftops you conceived 'naturally'? Seems a bit weird to do that but whatever's important to you

Yes lighten up FFS! I'm not minimising anyone's feelings...

Can you not see you're minimising people's feeling by telling them to lighten up?

Try it with other life changing situations...
Lost your job? Lighten up!
You've got cancer? Lighten up!
Your husband's having an affair? Lighten up!

I'm a bit confused as to why people keep posting that my relative meant the pregnancy was extra precious not the baby. As I said in my OP, they said the baby would be extra precious AND extra loved. I just don't think that's ok with my baby sat right there. Ditto people saying I'm making it about me. The relative said it was good my SIL was pregnant and not me. I think that is offensive to me and the baby I've just carried. A hierarchy of love for babies is ridiculous in my opinion but this was more directly rude.

To the OP, I'm sorry that you were upset by one comment by an insensitive person - and I agree that all babies are precious - but you don't have to face the rubbish sprouted at infertiles or bereaved parents (I am both) day in day out with no recognition from people that they are being insensitive. So I wish you hadn't started this thread.

I want to share a photo of my 'perceived loss' Mouthofmisery, just to show you how perfect he was when he was born, he looks just like me (for the record, there was nothing wrong with him, it was a condition in me that made him be born early) but you do not deserve to see my beautiful boy. Like patience, hours in labour to go home without a baby and that's a 'perceived loss'?!

Infertility is also a type of grief but intangible and much harder to relate to, but very real for those who experience it.

Walk in someone else's shoes before you judge.

I have experienced infertility and the loss of a child and they are both bloody awful.

Op - I can see why it annoyed you but it was probably said without thinking and I would let it go.

The relative said it was good my SIL was pregnant and not me.

It seems very obvious to me that they meant 'it's finally her turn after you had your time in the limelight with your babies'

You are being professionally offended to take this as a slight on your baby

Mouth of misery

Still waiting for an answer to my question.

Hopefully mouth hasn't responded because she has crawled back into whichever hole she came from.

Fertile people are vilified?

Are you for fucking real mouthofmisery? When are people who are fertile vilified?

You're not a troll you're just a bitch.

Of course the isn't less loved but the pregnancy is slightly different to an easily conceived one.
It is very hard to explain the feeling that you won't be able to have children, the mental Torture of trying to conceive and the heart break mixed with happiness when others are pregnant. There are stages before ivf and those are equally stressful.
When you are pregnant you can almost feel scared to be excited not believing it can happen. But the pregnancy is different and I can see why people acknowledge that and rightly so.