AIBU to question bedtime in the UK?

[onemumtwocountries]

I'm a regular but have NCd as some of my latest posts were quite identifying.

I recently travelled to my home country and noticed that babies/kids there go to bed quite a bit later than in the UK. Bedtime between 8.30 and 10.30pm (depending on age) seems to be the norm. In the UK people seem to put kids to bed between 6.30 and 8.30pm (based on my experience, do correct me if I'm wrong).

DH and I have quite a few friends and family in the UK whose kids are up before 6am. They often (rightly) complain this is very early and try various methods to keep them in bed until a more reasonable time (Gro Clock etc).

I'd presume that kids need similar amounts of sleep regardless of which country they grow up in. So I wonder if a shift in the bedtime culture in the UK would make for children who sleep until a more reasonable time? Or am I missing the point entirely?

Going to bed a little later would also allow the DCs to see the working parent for a bit longer in the evening (assuming standard working hours), although I appreciate this would eat into adult time in the evening.

My DS is only tiny so we don't have a bedtime routine yet, but I'm keen to know your thoughts before I embark on one!

Thank you.

My dd2 is up by 6 regardless of what time she goes to bed, she's always been that way. She's almost 10 now so its not likely to change.

whereas in other cultures children are not regarded as a nuisance.

What a horrible comment.

I used to put my kids to bed at 8 pm when they were little, gradually getting later as they got older. They would get up around 7am.
They would also have the odd late night at a party or a wedding, with no problems.
I don't feel the need for lay ins myself, in fact in the summer I love getting up really early (about 5 am). I only need 5 or 6 hours sleep a night myself, so I always managed to get a few childfree hours, barring the odd bad night.

We leave home at 7:15am Monday - Friday. Early bedtimes are a must. Where we are most kids are down by 8pm. Ours go down at 7pm and are asleep by 7:30pm. We wake them up at 6:30am.

I agree with OP. We have worked out that my DD sleeps 11 hours, no nsps. So bed at 8pm, up at 7. This works on school days. It takes 3 or 4 days to delsy bed time if we are on holiday, but if I go abroad for a couple of weeks all my friends kids (if no school) stay out until 10 easy so DD goes to bed at 11 and starts getting up closer to 10 by the third day. As said this does not work at weekends in the UK as there is not enough time to adjust. But I do have friends whose kids go to bed at 6-6.30 and complaint if they wake up early. I will never understand this.
Also kids from school age don't have siestas in Spain.

I agree with you and have seen the same thing.
The other thing I have notice too is that toddlers are dropping their nap in the fternoon much earlier on in the UK than in other countries.
So in effect you have children going to bed later BUT having a nap until they are at least 3yo but often 4 or 5yo.

Needing a nap is just I possible to deal with the system in the UK. By the time the children are 4 or 5yo they will be in full time education and naps just aren't part of the routine (whereas they would be in places where napping is seen as normal)

Different routine in the day also explains the differences (even though in the country I am thinking about, children do get up very early too due to parents going to work early. So a 6.30am start is seen as normal).

I know what you mean but as pps have said, if you are a working parent you need to be up early to get yourself and everyone ready, especially if you are doing the childminder/nursery drop off. We need to be up and out at 7.30 here.

Ha try telling my baby that 7.30 is an early bedtime! By 6.15 he is absolutely done with the day and ready for sleep. He's ratty, moany, crying, rubbing his eyes and a misery to be around. We try and keep him up until as close to seven as possible in order not to be woken too early. It's not always possible.

In theory I like the continental approach to children's bedtimes. In reality, there is no better feeling than sitting down with a glass of something cold in the evening and not having to engage with little people for a few hours!!!

I'm assuming you've posted in AIBU for traffic, are you questioning the amount of sleep children need or the time they go to bed?

I think bedtimes are largely driven by convention and culture. The norm here is that people are in work / school well before 9am so work days, schools, childcare, and therefore social agendas are structured accordingly. Most people (a generalisation as you have generalised your question) need to be ready to leave the house by 8am latest to get everyone to where they need to be so surely the best approach is to work backwards using the number of hours sleep you need before the time you wake up in order to reach your optimum bedtime??

My kids need 12 hours sleep otherwise they're grumpy and sensitive, they have to wake up at 7am so they go to bed at 7pm, it's not rocket science.

You'll find that dynamics change as kids get older, so YANBU to question any schedule in order to find what works for you but YABVU to question an entire country on what they choose as being best for their kids, especially when the routine is more closely tied to social norms than parental choice.

If your AIBU is more about how much sleep kids need, personally I think the more the better. There's nothing worse than a young child who can't concentrate or control themselves well because they are too tired,

I think ensuring our children get ENOUGH sleep is one of the most important responsibilities we have and one of the best lessons we can teach our children when they're little.

Mine (1 and 4) are both fast asleep now after a lovely late afternoon family dinner and walk, so I'm off to enjoy a and will have no issues at all getting up with them at 7.

Also maybe schools in the U.K. start earlier than on the continent. Dd starts secondary school at 8.30am. Take in travelling time that is an early start.

DC1 has a Spanish boy in his class, in reception his mum started quizing us about sleep routines/times, because her DS was really struggling with no nap in the school day, but needing to be up at around 7 to be at school on time (and see his dad before he left for walk). She said children in spain normally still have afternoon naps up until around 6/7 years old, which doesn't really fit into the British school hours.

In the UK, the best part of the day is late morning/early afternoon weather wise, in hotter countries, the evening is the best part of the day. We arrange our days to make the most of the best part, particularly for children.

If you think in terms of daylight hours, then if you've got a little kid who needs 10 hours sleep, rising at 5am and going to bed at 7pm would surely be ideal?
Not for me, I would definitely do bed time at 9 raising at 7!

Also maybe schools in the U.K. start earlier than on the continent.

In many European countries, 8am is the norm.

Even university lectures start at 8:15am here.

What time does everyone have to get up to get to school at 8am?!

I don't think there is such a thing as 'UK bedtime' but I have on many occasions experienced non UKers laughing at us because of the stereotype. 'Oh god it's 830 aren't yours in bed yet hmmmmm?!'

It's a bit like saying all French people smell of garlic. But no matter how many times you say it it doesn't make it true.

In fact I've met people from other countries so keen to be 'right on' that they take it too far the other way. I've also sat in meetings where teachers have pleaded with parents to try and get them to put their kids to bed earlier. You can physically see it with some of the kids. Their growth slows, they have pale pasty skin and their behaviour & concentration suffers.

Stereotypes aren't helpful & that's all that's happening here. I don't even know how it became such a thing to be cool about - who cares?! I'm not sure why I would even notice what time another family's child went to bed. Bizarre when you think about it. But dont try too hard to rebel or whatever you think you are doing, and just make sure your kids get enough sleep whatever time it is.

My three-year-old is rarely asleep before 11 which is admittedly late. And he needs to wake up at around 7:45 for nursery. However, he has 2.5-3 hour long naps still in the afternoon. We do put him to bed earlier in the evening, so add about half an hour to 45 minutes' quiet time to that (he just doesn't fall asleep fast, invariably decides to poo after lights out, etc).

The setup works for us because my DH and I both work full time, and this way I get to spend time with my son every day. We are very lucky to have help from grandparents which allows my son to continue his mega naps at home.

ETA: the mega naps do make it more difficult to schedule outings and social events, since most other kids my DS's age have much shorter naps and go to bed earlier.

Dd is 5 and goes to beat 7. By the time she's had a story and cuddles it's closer to 7.30. It's a struggle to get her up at 7am for school. I don't think a later bedtime would work for her. After two nights of going to bed at 8.30-9pm and despite sleeping in until 9am today, she is tearful and grumpy. I think you just have to do what is best for your kids.

Agree with the OP. Later bedtimes worked for us. Bu then again I was a SAHM with school across the road so we didn't need to get up early. I imagine it could be difficult if you had to get up early for work and needed to drop them off at nursery or childminder etc. Worked as an aupair in Italy for a while and children were very much part of family life in the late evenings. If the parents went out at night the little ones went too.

Our 7 year old ds starts school at 8am so has to get up at 7am. In order for him to get enough sleep he needs to be in bed by 8pm at the latest. And DH and I enjoy a couple of hours adult time before bed, I love my ds but having him hanging around all evening demanding attention until I went to bed would drive me crackers!

It's 7.30 pm now and DH is just taking him up the stairs. Time to put my feet up and enjoy the peace!

Just to nitpick, there's no widespread siesta as some Brits are claiming. People in Spain work longer hours and there may be a longer lunch break, but you don't go to sleep. I think the very young and old might, but it's just a personal thing, not a widespread phenomenon.

Just had this discussion with someone who still believes the whole country literally sleeps for the afternoon. Nope.

Our DD wakes around 7. We need her up by 7:15 to get everyone ready, so this is all fine on a weekday.

What you might hear me have a bit of a whinge about is that this is never-changing. No weekend or holiday lie-ins.

I think a lot of it is down to the parents and whether they themselves are a night owl or an early bird. Perhaps they pass these traits down? Also, if you love routine or are a lot more "go with the flow".

I'm a routine loving early bird - my 3yo and 6yo sleep approx 7.30pm - 7am (used to be 7-7 from tiny babies as that's what they naturally did).

My sister is a night owl, always worked in pubs, never makes plans or has a routine. Her 10yo goes to bed when he's tired (often 10pm-ish and has been for a long time), and has never had a schedule or bedtime routine. He'd fall asleep at family lunches in restaurants when he was around 4-5 years old.

Everyone thinks their way is best, bit like most of parenting I guess

My family is on a later shift than average. DCs are 6 and 3. Lights off is 8.30 to 9. In reality closer to 9 most nights. They phased their naps out between 3-4. The 3 yo will now manage a few days without a nap, then have a catch up. They wake around 7.30- 7.45.

When I was working FT, they had to be at their local childcare for 8am, so I'd get up early (often very early to do work) then get myself ready. I'd get them up at 7.30 get them dressed and washed, then they'd have breakfast at childcare. When they got up earlier it was much harder to get out!

We got back home just after 6pm. I needed some quiet time before I could face cooking, so by the time we ate it was approaching 8pm also allowing DH to eat with us in one sitting. Sometimes I'd need to work again when they were in bed, but I'm more productive in the morning so needed my quiet time more then.

I've found my DCs quite flexible for occasions- that is the luck of the draw as much as our loose routine.

I have to say, my experience is that people in the uk put their baby/toddler to bed early (7.00pm has always been the norm, hence the early dinner at 5.30pm. Seen that most primary age children still eat around that sort of times, it would seen that it is the norm, at least where I live).

And it is the norm in France to have the dcs in bed around 8.30pm (again toddle ds and babies).

And yes it is closely link with culture and hours of work etc...

But seeing that schools start around 8.00am in France (and a lot of people at work), it doesn't always correlate that late bedtime is because of late starting time in the day.
I found that a late finishing time at work correlates better with a late bed time (because it allows for a bit of time to see the dcs, eat etc...).