AIBU to demand that people treat my DS with respect

[Whirlmeister]

AIBU to demand that people treat my DS (age 5) with the same respect they would treat any other human being, including things like asking his permission before using his things, allowing him to make choices for himself (even when those choices are going to cause him trouble), leaving him alone if he asks you not to touch him (even if they feel he needs a kiss or a hug), giving him privacy - all within the constraints that we don't allow him to place himself in danger, or step outside the limited rules we set down (like bed times, holding hands whilst crossing the road, coming when called etc.).

I get absolutely livid when certain people ignore his wishes, do things for him despite him wanting to do them for himself, hold him despite him asking to be put down or let go of, pick up and use his stuff without asking him, or walk into his room without at least knocking.

I feel like he's being treated without any respect, and it would be really obvious to them if he was a little older but for some reason they just can't see it with a 5 year old. My DP feels I'm overreacting...

I get absolutely livid when certain people ignore his wishes,

I wonder what happens/will happen at school as the requirements get more restrictive.

knits what would happen if he still refused to let you touch them and also refused to move them himself in five minutes. I'm not picking holes or trying to catch you out, I'm genuinely curious.

I won't mess with something dd has asked me not to to a degree, a half finished jigsaw is fine on her bedroom floor until she has finished it, but not the living room floor. She'd have to move it when she's finished with it. I'd give her the choice of putting it up in her room herself (she has a board thing so wouldn't have to break it all up) or it going up the Hoover if she refused to move it :) DH is just told "move it, or lose it"

Not saying my way is right and yours is wrong, if it works, it works and that all kids are different. Was just curious how it works when a child is given the option to do something another parent may think isn't an option, like clearing their own stuff away and they choose not to.

Sorry, Knits. I'm glad that approach works for you, but I'd get exhausted by 10am. I'd be saying, "I'll get you to pick up your Lego in five minutes as I'll be bringing the Hoover through, and I don't want you to lose any." It isn't a question, and the kid still gets to play a bit more. My kids are teenagers now and seem to be OK so I must be doing something right!

PFB without question. Would you still hold the same position if your 5 year old had a 3 year old sibling OP? I'm with your DP. Here have a grip....=

No way would I spend 5 minutes negotiating with a 5 year old every time I needed to hoover up. PP have said they would approach it the way they would with an adult. Erm, with an adult I would say do the hoovering yourself if you don't want to move your shit. Obviously I am not going to say that to a 5 year old because a 5 year old isn't an adult and shouldn't be treated like one. I am going to give an instruction - move your things, please. When the 5 year old can do everything for himself he can make all his own decisions.

typical scene; 3 year old tired and acting up before bed, toddler crying needing to be fed. father catching up on the news, mom exhausted asking for help.
gp picks up the 3 year old and gets on with wash up and pj's despite kicks and screams for ONLY MOMMY.
follow that with the exhausted mom telling her partner "sometimes I wish you would just help like that and get the job done".
negotiating with a child isn't always helpful and life goes on vacuuming and dishes get done.

This >>>

It's also interesting how people on this thread are conflating 'respect' with 'authority.' Allowing children to make their own decisions about physical affection, knocking before entering rooms, or asking before using the child's own possessions are very, very different to obeying the child's every order and whim. Showing basic respect towards a young child doesn't equate to allowing or encouraging the child to disrespect others.

Unwanted physical affection or forcing to share things is counterproductive.
Knocking on doors i'd say is teaching by example, just like saying 'please' or 'thank you'

Reading these negotiating tactics explains why some children find transition to school difficult. Making a chore even more drawn out is ok for you but don't expect gps/friends/teachers etc to do the same.

I agree just, different things work for different kids. Exactly what I'd do in that scenario would probably depend on the circumstances, but I'd start by trying to understand why the child didn't want to move the bricks and go from there.

So perhaps the child says they spent ages building a zoo with their bricks and they want to play with it some more before putting it away. A parent could suggest they move the zoo onto a tray and carry it to the child's bedroom so they can play with it later. Or the child might say they want to show whatever they've built to daddy, so a parent could suggest they take a photo to show daddy. If the child doesn't want to move the bricks because they're busy playing another game then the parent could just say that's fine but the parent will need to tidy the bricks themselves then.

I think my approach could probably be summed up as believing that a child's needs and wishes are just as valid and deserving of respect as an adult's. That absolutely doesn't mean the child gets to do as they please with no boundaries any more than an adult does. Instead it means I'd always try to help a child to find a way to respect those boundaries (eg no bricks where someone could fall on them) while also treating their wishes (eg wanting to continue playing with their bricks) as valid, rather than just overriding the child's wishes without any attempt to find a solution.

KnitsBakesAndReads: There are times when this approach is completely appropriate - if the child has just spent a long time building something, for example. And there are times when this is just inefficient and amounts to teaching your child that everything will be negotiated. It won't. Sometimes they will need to follow the direction of adults whether they understand or agree, or not. It's worth them learning this before school starts.

"It's also interesting how people on this thread are conflating 'respect' with 'authority.' Allowing children to make their own decisions about physical affection, knocking before entering rooms, or asking before using the child's own possessions are very, very different to obeying the child's every order and whim. Showing basic respect towards a young child doesn't equate to allowing or encouraging the child to disrespect others."

Totally agree with the above.

I think it's incredibly important to treat children with respect. Unwanted physical attention is quite repulsive. However, we always modeled appropriate behaviour, e.g. Explaining that when auntie is leaving after a visit, you don't need to hug and kiss BUT it's common
Courtesy to say goodbye. And actually this is just an extension of what most people teach a baby to do which is wave goodbye when someone is leaving.

Regarding the massive generalisation the OP makes about allowing a 5 year old to make their own choices.... .... it's a pointless statement put like that. Almost everyone on here has explained how that statement needs to be qualified, and the unattractive and unfair consequences of allowing
A 5 year old to make their own decisions about everything.

Has the OP been back btw?!

I would never get a thing done with my three if i had to have conversations like that every time i wanted to hoover they know that if after being asked twice to move their lego it will be in the hoover!

I fully agree about the physical contact thing. No one should force a child to kiss their grandma or whoever if they don't want to. I'm amazed that still happens in this day and age, tbh.

As for knocking on their door, this would be a good way to teach them to knock on their parent's door, so it could be a mutually beneficial thing.

You can treat a child with respect but there are limits to what is feasible, and frankly, normal.

Handing over all decision-making responsibilities to a child is just lax parenting. Sometimes you've got to say no to stuff. You're not disrepecting them, you're parenting them.

Parents who say "Billy is old enough to make his own decisions now" when he's 7...they need to get a grip. Billy is old enough to express his opinions but his parents are still responsible for making the decisions.

OP if you were making spag bol for tea and your DS wanted something else instead would you make it for him?

Some people must have taken batshit tablets over Christmas

My line has always been that my children never had to hug or kissif they didn't want to and I would make sure it didn' happen. But that basic courtesy was non negotiable. That includes saying hello and goodbye, please and thank you , shaking hands, knocking on doors.

This works both ways. I hate the idea of people not knocking on a child's door if it's shut.

CancellyMcChequeface

It's also interesting how people on this thread are conflating 'respect' with 'authority.' Allowing children to make their own decisions about physical affection, knocking before entering rooms, or asking before using the child's own possessions are very, very different to obeying the child's every order and whim. Showing basic respect towards a young child doesn't equate to allowing or encouraging the child to disrespect others.

Although I agree with above there are situations where children are not asked but told to do something that is a requirement. the worrying part is when the OP says

"I get absolutely livid when certain people ignore his wishes"

There will be times when his wishes will not be taken in to account and times when he needs to do something straight away, Some people will not have time to have the 5 minute conversation to try and change his mind, then the follow up 30 minute phonecall from the OP because she is livid.

Fucks sake OP, with the exception of the touching/hugging thing you sound like you seriously need to unclench.

How do you react when people do these awful things that make you so 'livid'?

OP - guess what, your kid doesnt get the casting vote on EVERYTHING and youre coming off more than a bit PFB.

Had this in a busy train station recently, people running for trains, me heavily pregnant humping around my bag, cold and tired.... and some super-entitled mother deciding the stairs at rush hour are absolutely the best place to indulge her childs need to be independant and manage their own luggage.

On the enforced cuddles etc yup. On the other stuff perhaps people dont have endless hours in the day to consult your PFB on everything? Or perhaps they ddont have time for EVERYTHING to be a 'valuable coaching experience' for your kid and have their own shit to be cracking on with?

Perhaps if I give some examples.

If my DS wants to go out on a cold day without a jacket, I think he's daft. I'll point out the likely impact. I'll say I'd prefer him to wear one, but if he insists and we are with him I'll let him go out. I'll bring jaket gloves, hat and scarf with me because I'll know he'll get cold, and regret his decision, but he has to learn from his mistakes. I most definitely will not force him into them.

If he's got a new toy that he likes, and he's doing no harm with it, I wont take it off him just so I can inspect it. I might ask to look at it, and he's the sort of child who will probably let me, but I wont just take it.

But its the minor things that really annoy me. Talking over him when he's trying to express himself, picking him up when he doesn't want to be held, reading something for him when he's capable of read it for himself (if a little slowly), or ignoring him when he says he wants to do something for himself. Yes, if we're in a rush we do have to do things for him because he takes forever to do some things, and if he turns to an adult for support and help then step in, but where possible I'd like to give him the freedom he deserves.

For the most part we've found that even with a five year old if you give them the freedom to make their own decisions, they do the right thing... The exception to this is TV (he'd watch TV all day long), but even hear you can let them decide - so long as you set limits. So for example offering the choice of a program now, or a program after diner.

As for food, we feed him what we're eating, but I would never make him eat. If he chooses not to eat that's his choice (and he deals with the consequences). I try to persuade him to try everything, even if he then decides to eat no more having tried it, but he's entitled to try and eat what he wants. We do however insist that unless he eats well we don't serve desert.

I've been trying to get my DFIL and DMIL to understand (and to a lesser extent my parents), but they just don't get the principle. I seem to be able to get them to understand that a particular incident was wrong, but the ethos of treat him with respect and him be himself just doesn't seem to get through.

The hat and coat thing OP - that's not him learning a lesson is it? All it's really teaching him is that if he makes the wrong decision someone else (i.e. you) will fix it for him.

I can't believe you negotiate with a 5 year old about whether or not they should wear a coat outside in winter...

I'm guessing he's your first OP?

All of this is very lovely in theory, but you are his parent and he needs to learn from you - and the other adults around you. He is not old enough to make decisions for himself yet. Of course you need to treat him with respect, but you also need to give him the benefit of your experience and sometimes he needs to understand that he just has to do something because you have asked him to (like wearing a coat for example).

He's going to have a terrible time at school if he doesn't understand that sometimes he has to do things because an adult (with more life experience and more understanding of the bigger picture) has told him that he has to.

Ah I see OP. You kowtow to your 5 year old. OK.

I sort of see your point. But it's not going to do any harm if his grandparents help him, and it probably gives them pleasure. So you do it your way- it's very important for him to learn that we don't interact with everybody the same way.

Apart from the hugging/kissing and privacy thing.

You are neglecting your ds wellbeing. Children need boundaries so they feel secure. Your ds should be made to wear a coat in the cold, it makes me so angry that your ds is suffering because you want to be all crunchy and cool.