To not want to move to DH's home country?

[fannysatdawn]

We have 3DC, 10mo, 2 and 3. DH and I met and married in the U.K but he is originally from Egypt. The situation in Egypt was always very problematic (from 2011) and is not ideal now either for a family as a preference over England. We always agreed that if the situation improves we may consider having a house there when we retire. At the moment we go there 4 times a year for about 2 weeks to a month each time.

DH has suddenly decided he wants to move there now. He says he is having an identity crisis, feels separated from his homeland and he wants his children to feel they have Egyptian heritage.

This could not have come at a worse time for me. I have had severe PND since the birth of 3rd DC, I am in the wilderness of hormones and lack of adult company (I am a full time SAHM) and I too am having an identity crisis and DH fails to see that, just because it's not cultural or patriotic, it is the full time being a mum cliche.

My parents are very close to the DC as we live in England, they are a total saving grace for me because they offer me a lot of support where DH doesn't. DH feels that his parents do not get enough time with the DC (even though we spend about 4 -5 months a year with them.)

I am very torn because I believe in equality and treating both cultures the same and allowing them equal influence and weight in the DC's lives. But I feel I have already bent over backwards to accommodate DH's wishes. Eg we always holiday in Egypt and never go to any other country. All our free time is spent in Egypt. We are teaching the DC Arabic as well as English and I am learning Arabic. I have told DH's parents our house is an open house to them, even though they are not particularly nice to me and have made it clear they are angry DH married outside of his culture.

I asked DH if I refused whether it would be a deal breaker. He said it wouldn't end our marriage but he would feel that I would have "deprived our family of an experience essential to our health, growth and happiness." Which is basically opening things up to lay blame at my door for anything that might go wrong in the future.

What do you think?

Ana makes the very important point that OP hasn't said which religion her husband is (I'm guessing it's not Jewish, but that could just about be possible) -most Egyptian Copts would also not be best pleased for a son to marry out. But those same people assuming he's Muslim talking about FGM are presumably unaware that percentage -wise, it's far and away Copts who are most commonly cut

I like Egypt a lot, I'd live there, and I'd educate any putative children there -but absolutely not if their father was Egyptian. I n Egypt, as with all Muslim majority countries (as well as those which define themselves as Islamic) family law is influenced, to a greater or lesser degree, by Sharia. So for the same reason, as a UK citizen, I wouldn't live in Jordan with my Jordanian husband, Morocco with my Moroccan husband, Abu Dhabi with my Emirati husband etc. We don't need MN to tell us marriages fail all the time -and it's bad enough getting divorced without custody of your sons automatically going to your husband, to be joined by your daughter once she gets to 6/7/12 etc

OP you can PM me if you want specific info on the Egyptian laws concerning custody etc (I'm an economist primarily, but also have a background in ME family law)-but even aside from this, the last thing you need with PND is to move away from your support network. I totally understand your DH 's point - but it's not the premise under which you agreed to marry and have children. Nevertheless, their Egyptian heritage is also important - I'm staggered that he doesn't already speak to them in Arabic only: suggest he start that, to get them bilingual, and perhaps, as they get older, they might want to take the initiative for themselves to embrace Egypt more fully. Right now, though, it's not right for you, and it's not right for the family

You should have heard the racist remarks I and my family got when I was marrying my dh. One woman asked my mum if I had to walk three steps behind my dh! My mum went ballistic at her. As my dm said there are plenty of 'bad bastards' in this country. I have had a couple of friends go through marriage break ups recently here and I am astonished at how badly their dh's behaved. It isn't just arabs or Muslim men who can behave badly. The main difference here is that woman and children are protected by the law.

Bestthingever I had that too, although a little more... subtle? Mostly people asking if he was going to be doing any cooking or housework, because his culture is very much man works, woman looks after house.

Smitff
Many of us here have experienced racism at first hand, and recognise it only too well. It does not exist in this thread.

We do know however that if the OP follows her husband's demands she is at serious risk of having a miserable life and possibly losing her children.

The husband came to the UK out of free choice. He married here out of free choice. He had children here out of free choice.

He now wants his wife to move abroad against her free choice. To lose the support of her family against her free choice. To lose the legal protection of her native country against her free choice. To take her children there against her free choice. And for them to be brought up in a very different environment against her free choice. That is all entirely unreasonable and unacceptable.

Notice that I have not mentioned the husband's country, race or religion. Because his demands are unacceptable regardless of his country, race or religion.

That is not racism. It is just plain common sense, and I applaud to common sense of the posters here.

Watch the Sally Field film "Not without my daughter ".
This is your situation, do not do this.

Richard I'm afraid to say a negative remark about dh because I know people attribute almost any fault of him to his being an Arab (with the exception of my dps and my good friends). Yet all of his faults are pretty normal for an English guy e.g. I did all the Xmas shopping (never mind the fact he's a different religion!)

I would recommend any woman with 3 young children, PND and hostile in-laws NOT to emigrate whether it be the Us, Australia or Japan. I would be suspicious of any spouse suddenly pulling the culture card after 3+ children in quick succession when they are being unsupportive etc.

It does scream of misogyny nowt to do with race or religion, all the more suspicious when the destination is struggling economically and is politically unstable.

Agree with other posters. Give your own passport and the kids to your parents and tell them what is happening and under no circumstances are they to tell your husband they have the passports. Also notify the passport office (or people responsible for issuing them) they are not to reissue kids passports if requested by your husband reporting them as "missing/lost". I believe you can also notify immigration they may be an abduction risk, but you would need to confirm that with a UK resident/citizens advice, or perhaps a chat with your local police, using a hypothetical situation.

DO NOT visit Egypt with the kids, as once there you can have the passports taken off you (have to sleep sometime), and the parents could potentially hold you prisoner in their house. Sounds dramatic but they don't like you anyway, and your son wishes would be paramount.

Likewise Best thing. If he left the washing up its 'because he's an Arab'. Makes me mad!

their sons wishes

Pleased to hear it's not just me Pink.

To be honest I really would not want to live in the USA either.

My advice would be almost exactly the same to any woman in the OP's situation regardless of her DH's country of origion.

I think any woman with three kids of three and under, post natal depression, an unsupportive husband who is engaging in emotional blackmail, and in-laws who disliked her would be very, very ill advised to go and live in another country away from her support.

This would be even if she knew the language fluently and would not receive additional discrimination as a woman.

Fact and practical advice are not racism, nor are they scaremongering.

OP has an unsupportive DH, hostile in-laws, has PND and is being pressed to emigrate to a country with a poor record on women's rights, far away from her much needed family support network. On top of that it is perfectly possible that should her relationship with said unsupportive DH fail, she might be unable to leave with her children.

If that is down to the Hague Convention then why do some people seem to think that the British Embassy will have some sort of magic wand and be able to get them back to the UK with no repercussions? It is international law, not racism or scaremongering.

I haven't read the full thread, but based on your op, please do not go. You are likely to never be financially better off there, health care will no way be better and education will never be perceived to be as good as British schooling. Add to that your pnd and a unstable and insecure relationship, it feels like it would be a terrible decision. Any move, let alone a move like that, should be considered for the benefit of the needs of everyone in the family. At the moment it just suits your husband. I understand that he is desperately homesick but your children's needs and their long term future overrule his. You must persuade him that the best thing for everyone is to stay here. But get ready for a massive fight on your hands, it sounds like he values his needs above you and the kids ☹️

To the O/P:

Do take a look at the website for the UK based charity 'Reunite International' for assisting families where children have been taken across an international border and detained there, or may be at danger of it happening:

Www.reunite.org

The charity is partly supported by the Ministry of Justice and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

The website has information on how to prevent a possible future child abduction and forums for parents. Some posts are heartbreaking, where parents have been seperated from their children for years......best for the OP to take on board the experiences of some of these parents as to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Hope this helps.

Read 'Fatwa' by Jackie Trevane. A woman who went on holiday to Egypt and met and married an Egyptian man and had children with him. She became trapped there. It's a horrific story.

Please stop going on holiday there. I fear these holidays have been leading up to this and this has been in his mind for a long time......

...and it's a definite NO from me

Too tired to RTT but in your position OP I wouldn't move to another city, never mind another country.

I have also lived abroad, that actually got me away from disproving ILS, and every day life is hard work. Even with a supportive DH of the nationality and therefore culture, it is hard work. It can be fun in ways but when you return you realise how much easier everything is here.

I recognise that your DH may feel as I describe living here, but he isn't suffering PHD and "stuck" at home with 3 children while you spend your days with adults having non children/housework centric conversations.

Don't know what happened to my post, but essentially I was saying I wouldn't move to the next city let alone his home country.

I'll come back when I've had some sleep to clarify.

Doh! Phone's caught up at last