To not want to move to DH's home country?

[fannysatdawn]

We have 3DC, 10mo, 2 and 3. DH and I met and married in the U.K but he is originally from Egypt. The situation in Egypt was always very problematic (from 2011) and is not ideal now either for a family as a preference over England. We always agreed that if the situation improves we may consider having a house there when we retire. At the moment we go there 4 times a year for about 2 weeks to a month each time.

DH has suddenly decided he wants to move there now. He says he is having an identity crisis, feels separated from his homeland and he wants his children to feel they have Egyptian heritage.

This could not have come at a worse time for me. I have had severe PND since the birth of 3rd DC, I am in the wilderness of hormones and lack of adult company (I am a full time SAHM) and I too am having an identity crisis and DH fails to see that, just because it's not cultural or patriotic, it is the full time being a mum cliche.

My parents are very close to the DC as we live in England, they are a total saving grace for me because they offer me a lot of support where DH doesn't. DH feels that his parents do not get enough time with the DC (even though we spend about 4 -5 months a year with them.)

I am very torn because I believe in equality and treating both cultures the same and allowing them equal influence and weight in the DC's lives. But I feel I have already bent over backwards to accommodate DH's wishes. Eg we always holiday in Egypt and never go to any other country. All our free time is spent in Egypt. We are teaching the DC Arabic as well as English and I am learning Arabic. I have told DH's parents our house is an open house to them, even though they are not particularly nice to me and have made it clear they are angry DH married outside of his culture.

I asked DH if I refused whether it would be a deal breaker. He said it wouldn't end our marriage but he would feel that I would have "deprived our family of an experience essential to our health, growth and happiness." Which is basically opening things up to lay blame at my door for anything that might go wrong in the future.

What do you think?

SHOULD NOT GO see 1st line above.

OP I feel so sorry for you. You are suffering from PND and now having to read all this depressing advice. But you asked for that advice and everyone has said the same. You must face up to it.

If you move to Egypt, it will be you on your own against the three of them, your husband and his parents. They will control you and your children from then on. Your only escape would be to come home to the UK and leave the children there. It will be no good appealing to the authorities there because you will be the unwelcome foreigner.

This may sound dramatic, but in your place I would get legal advice about getting your children made wards of court, after giving their passports to your parents. You can then have a serious discussion with your husband about your future.

Maybe the inlaws have found him a second wife, thats why he is keen to go back.

OP the FGM thing doesn't affect your kids now given their ages, assuming they're girls. If they're boys and not circumcised this could also be impacting his thinking.

Btw it's normal for parents living outside their home country to feel wistful about it, especially after having children. He's not bad or trying to trick you necessarily, many, many people feel torn even when they come from much similar cultures to the one they're living in. In your DH's case there are so many differences the pull is probably stronger. However, that's an explanation, NOT a reason to move.

It could also be that he knows things are tough for you and over there you'd have more help with the kids - which would actually be helpful if he was the one at home with them and suffering PND. It's a completely different issue you moving there to a hostile family though. Absolutely no comparison.

My DH is from North Africa and his family is lovely. However, I still couldn't live there. There restrictions on me are too great and I know having a European education gives my DC huge advantages over a North African one.
Egypt is more unstable than his country (and his country is not great).
If you have daughters absolutely do not go and live in Egypt the risk of FGM is huge.

And there are expats in Cairo, but mostly without families and those with families tend to be living on compounds now, in villas paid for by companies (so v expensive).

And the schooling really isn't good, unless you've a LOT of money to throw at it, and even then, that's just making it the equivalent of a decent UK school, not what you'd get for the same money in the U.K.

And inflation there is pretty bad. The life he had when he left, or thinks he could afford based on how it was is definitely not the case now. Even the upper middle classes are suffering.

No no no no... Don't go!

no way. absolutely no way no no nononono!!!

You will lose your children if you separate.

Please don't go.

I am also an expat - in Europe.

I wouldn't got to Egypt for a gold clock. I'd get divorced first.

Don't do it OP.

I say no for all the reasons already given.

However, I have a huge amount of sympathy with your DH's feelings about his home country, raising his children outside of his home country and away from his family. I feel exactly the same way, and actually use similar language when I talk about living and raising my kids outside the uk.

You betray your level of acceptance of his heritage with your language. It should be an absolute given that his children speak his language (as they should yours) , that they be at ease in Egypt (as they should in the uk). It is not bending over backwards to spend all your free time in Egypt: you would only think that if your starting point is that you shouldn't, or that you should spend most of your time in the uk. His starting point is that Egypt is his home and, if he's anything like me, he misses his home with a physical ache and it will be a source of great distress to him that his children won't know the joy of it.

Having said that, you are not well and now absolutely isn't the time to be making such decisions. Once the children are stuck into the school calendar, things will become even harder. A marriage is a partnership and his job is to support you and the children ahead of his own homesickness right now. He gets a good amount of time at home, that should be enough while you're in the trenches with small children. Ask for time and calm before discussing this, and please be understanding. Life away from home can be very very hard (for him in the U.K. as much as for you in Egypt).

NO, NO, NO, I would not go.

I would make sure I had all the support here and I would even make sure that if there was any whiff of my dh taking the kids i would ensure their passports were safely stored elsewhere. Not sure i would suggest this though in case he then decides to try it.

You would be very vulnerable there and if you are vulnerable, your kids would be too.

DO NOT GIVE IN TO BLACKMAIL.

Presumably he met you in England, knew you were English, married you here and had agreed to stay here and is now changing his mind. Even if only one of those things was true I would be very suspicious of someone changing their mind like this.

"I am very torn because I believe in equality" Do you really think you are going to get equality there? Are any of your children female? Do you think they will get equality there?

Please donot give in to this man's pressure on some sort of confused feelings of equality. The world is not an equal place for men and women and you will not find equal treatment in Egypt.

Re "...treating both cultures the same and allowing them equal influence and weight in the DC's lives." That is fine if you think both cultures will treat all your kids equally the same and you can give your kids that experience from the safety of Britain.

"I feel I have already bent over backwards to accommodate DH's wishes." then stop bending over backwards. Stop giving in to him. Please get help for your PND and get some assertiveness training too.

"I have told DH's parents our house is an open house to them, even though they are not particularly nice to me and have made it clear they are angry DH married outside of his culture."

You sound like there are so many issues here, really please do not make yourself vulnerable to these people, they will not look after you.

"I asked DH if I refused whether it would be a deal breaker. He said it wouldn't end our marriage but he would feel that I would have "deprived our family of an experience essential to our health, growth and happiness." Which is basically opening things up to lay blame at my door for anything that might go wrong in the future.

What do you think?"

I think fuck that for a game of soldiers. If it is a deal breaker, so be it. I would never move my family to another country I was not happy to live in just to make my husband happy. If he is so worried about his own happiness, then he should have thought of that earlier.

Let him blame you in the future if he chooses. Your marriage sounds very unhappy, no support and lots of emotional blackmail thrown in. Have you thought about talking to women's aid?

If not, if the only issue is his emotional blackmail then I'd say, He asked asked you, you answered him, no. You gave your answer stick to it.

I agree with RandomMess "It's almost as though he's keeping you barefoot and pregnant to manipulate you..."
and
"I'd tell him to move back there and sort himself out, then potentially divorce him if he continues to be so selfish angry."

Please get some help if you need it, for PND and for your husband and your in-laws, who all sounds horrible. Sorry

Do not move at this point OP.
I am in a mixed marriage; we made the decision to stay in the UK but visit DH's home country during holidays etc.

This has worked very well for us and there has not been an issue with family relationships, learning the language etc.

Your DH is being selfish and unreasonable putting his own wants (not needs) before the wellbeing of his wife and family.

If anyone finds themselves in a situation where their partner tries to take their children abroad against their will there is help here...

[http://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/children-law-relocation-holidays-abduction/]]

I live in Egypt (with my dc) & love it. Expat teacher.

I would not consider your move, simply because of the implications if your marriage doesn't work.

One of my colleagues is (very happily) married to an Egyptian man, & they have a young dc. Met in UK & then moved to Egypt partly at her dh's wish to bring up his ds in his homeland, partly because of friend's excellent employment prospects as a teacher.

She occasionally jokes about how screwed she'd be if they ever split - except it's really not funny. Once or twice she's quietly admitted to me that it keeps her awake at nights. Any time they have a row - which she says is rare - it's coloured & heightened by the fact that they both know she can't possibly leave him. Even in a happy marriage, the power imbalance is always present if not discussed.

Oh, & her Egyptian PIL make no secret of their disapproval of her. Which is a massive deal because of the importance of family in Egyptian culture.

As I said, I love living in Egypt. Would I live there if I'd married an Egyptian & had half Egyptian dc? Categorically NO.

Sorry OP, but I think you'd be bonkers to do this.

Go on the pill. Hide the children's passports. Do not go on any more holidays to Egypt or any other country where he could prevent you from returning with them to the UK. Do whatever you can to stop him from abducting them. He's blackmailing you. And abduction could be a very big reality if things break down. Remember he was brought up by these disapproving parents so you don't know if or when his attitude to you could change.

Absolutely not. Do not do it. There are too many factors that mean this could potentially be a very negative move for you and your children.

I read this and it sounds like the beginning of one of those horrific tales of child abduction. I realise might sound far fetched but probably also did so to all those poor mothers whose children were kidnapped and taken to live with grandparents etc.

It sounds as though you spend plenty of time there every year. From minimum 8 weeks a year to 4 months a year.

It just seems too dangerous for all the reasons mentioned by other posters.

His parents may be applying pressure on him to raise his children as Egyptian. I would not let them travel there again, you are in very dangeroua territory now.

I know women in the ME trapped by divorce as the exDH's hold the rights. One friend of mine has custody of her daughter but her ex has custody of her passport so she is stuck in Dubai. Her DD was 3 and is now 11, so 8 years down the track. Another 7 to go. If he lets her travel for uni...

DO. NOT. GO.

DO. NOT.

SERIOUSLY.

I suspect this might have been part of a softly-softly long term plan on his part all along.

I can promise you with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY AND CLARITY that if you agree to this, the man, the husband the father you thought you knew will be dead to you. He will be replaced by someone you DO NOT RECOGNISE AND DO NOT LIKE and your life will not be the better for it.

Your female children will be subjected to forced genital mutilation against your will, for a start. And if that isn't enough on its own to make you sit up and take notice then I don't know what is.

Honestly, in the strongest possible terms I implore you not to do this.

No, under no circumstances NO.
As everyone has said this will not end well for you or your dc. They have the benefit of a British passport. Do not throw that away.

I have no doubt there are many incredible things about Egypt

No there aren't, there really aren't. Not unless you count the Pyramids which they can't even be bothered to keep clear of piles of litter. It's a shit hole.

It's nasty nasty place on so many levels. It's fine for a two week holiday if you like that sort of thing but to live and raise your children, when compared to the UK? You'd be absolutely mad.

The OP will be utterly, utterly miserable. Her DH refuses to recognise that she has PND, cannot deal with the fact that she might struggle as a full time parent of three very small children because he's from a culture where women are taught to put up and hut up.

He is not supportive on any practical level and he would like to isolate her from her parents who are supportive. Money will probably be much tighter if they live permanently in Egypt and I have no doubt whatsoever that she will be told she cannot visit the UK anywhere near as often as he currently insists they visit Egypt. And if she shows any signs of being unhappy there whatsoever then she can be damn sure she won't be allowed to visit the UK alone or take her children out of the country without him. She may as well sign her own death warrant now, because as far as I am concerned that is what it will be like - a living death. A fucking miserable half life.

And his parents resent that she's not a good Egyptian Muslim girl chosen for him by them and their cronies, with her labia cut off and her fanny stitched up so their precious son could break her in and make sure no-one else got there first.

Just NO NO NO. And in case you didn't hear me clearly enough, again NO.

I can't begin to explain the number of ways it could be absolutely awful for you.

No Ana please DO explain the ways, loud and clear in triplicate. PLEASE.

So you have 3 DC under 3, your husband is unsupportive, you have PND and he's trying to emotionally blackmail you into moving to a country which treats women like dirt on the street? No fucking way. It's interesting he's changed the goal posts now - you're totally vulnerable and he dumps this on you. How is your relationship in general?

I would also put a halt to these 4x a year visits to Egypt - you're expected to spend 2-4 weeks there each visit with people who don't like you? There already is no fairness or equality in your relationship - he dictates that all holiday time is spent in Egypt. What about your preferences? I would also be worried about future visits now and how to get back to the UK if he decides he doesn't want to return at the end of the holiday.

Are you getting treatment for PND? You urgently need to be seeing a counsellor - it'll help you set boundaries and become more assertive.

No, for all the reasons given. And don't ever let him take them there without you.

And if you divorce never let them out of the country.

To add:

He says you'll be depriving everyone of an experience essential to health, growth and happiness? What a fucking arsehole.

Health - mental health of you and your DC will be damaged.

Growth - there's no growth for a woman in Egypt.

Happiness - you'll be living a death sentence. You'll be stuck there til the day you die because you won't want to leave your DC obviously because he will not let you take them back to the UK.