To not want to move to DH's home country?

[fannysatdawn]

We have 3DC, 10mo, 2 and 3. DH and I met and married in the U.K but he is originally from Egypt. The situation in Egypt was always very problematic (from 2011) and is not ideal now either for a family as a preference over England. We always agreed that if the situation improves we may consider having a house there when we retire. At the moment we go there 4 times a year for about 2 weeks to a month each time.

DH has suddenly decided he wants to move there now. He says he is having an identity crisis, feels separated from his homeland and he wants his children to feel they have Egyptian heritage.

This could not have come at a worse time for me. I have had severe PND since the birth of 3rd DC, I am in the wilderness of hormones and lack of adult company (I am a full time SAHM) and I too am having an identity crisis and DH fails to see that, just because it's not cultural or patriotic, it is the full time being a mum cliche.

My parents are very close to the DC as we live in England, they are a total saving grace for me because they offer me a lot of support where DH doesn't. DH feels that his parents do not get enough time with the DC (even though we spend about 4 -5 months a year with them.)

I am very torn because I believe in equality and treating both cultures the same and allowing them equal influence and weight in the DC's lives. But I feel I have already bent over backwards to accommodate DH's wishes. Eg we always holiday in Egypt and never go to any other country. All our free time is spent in Egypt. We are teaching the DC Arabic as well as English and I am learning Arabic. I have told DH's parents our house is an open house to them, even though they are not particularly nice to me and have made it clear they are angry DH married outside of his culture.

I asked DH if I refused whether it would be a deal breaker. He said it wouldn't end our marriage but he would feel that I would have "deprived our family of an experience essential to our health, growth and happiness." Which is basically opening things up to lay blame at my door for anything that might go wrong in the future.

What do you think?

I doubt the British Embassy will be able to help if the DC have dual nationality. Normally they won't interfere with the laws relating to citizens of a country in that country even if they are also British nationals.
www.inbrief.co.uk/immigration-law/dual-nationality

Look under disadvantages in the article linked.

Yep I would tread very very carefully now, especially if they have dual nationality. As the poster above mentioned, the British government will not get involved if that's the case. I know this as the partner of a dual national.

My DC also have dual nationality and are from a volatile Islamic country similar to Egypt. For this reason I will never visit, let alone consider moving there. It means we rarely see DP's family which is quite sad but so be it. Their happiness and security comes first.

The DCs happiness and security obviously.

Everything else aside- if you have PND, do not, please do not, remove yourself from your support network.
I hope you're better soon

OP I'm so glad you're listening to the advice on here.

Yes please get help for your PND.

Also don't forget that your husband chose of his own free will to marry a non Egyptian British woman and live in the Uk. If his parents have a problem with that then it's between them and not your fault. He can't expect you to give up everything to accommodate them or the fact he's now changed his mind about living in the UK.

The British embassy will absolutely not get involved. As said before, they cannot interfere with the laws of the land. Even if the dcs didn't have Egyptian birth certificate or passports, the Egyptian government considers them citizens if their father is Egyptian. They would guess that at the airport from their last names. I know this because when we visit Egypt I often leave earlier than dh. I just can't take more than two weeks there! I always get asked about my children's father at the passport control on the way out, even though they are using British passports. I explain we are leaving earlier (I speak Arabic well). I've never had a problem but dh always waits outside security in case there is. It's absolute bullshit that I should have to 'explain'. If an expat woman was having marriage problems, there is a way, I believe, that her dh could inform the airports to prevent her leaving.

fannysatdawn "Definitely not going now. Even if it means the end of my marriage."

Phew, so pleased to hear this. Woke up and thought of you today - I'm over-invested in Mumsnet over Christmas' holidays!

Agree with Coted'azure find out legal position BEFORE next holiday.

woesinwonderland I am glad it worked out for you and I too saw "Not without my daughter" and was terrified.

But really "There is an awful lot of scaremongering going on here regarding visiting" - not at all. If you remember in the film that is exactly what happened, a family holiday led to an American woman (and her daughter) being held captive by her own husband in Iran. It happened over 30 years ago but there is nothing I know of to suggest it could not happen again, and has not happened to others.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Without_My_Daughter

Italian I read that book. Deep down that woman knew she was making a mistake before she even travelled there but she just could bring herself to stand up to him. She was extremely lucky to escape.

Even if the dcs didn't have Egyptian birth certificate or passports, the Egyptian government considers them citizens if their father is Egyptian

That's exactly the sort of thing I was afraid of ... or rather, the possible implications of it are

Iran and Egypt are very different countries. But it's definitely true that once there the UK embassy is of absolutely no use. Given how helpful there were to Brits trying to leave during the revolution I think it's safe to say, regardless of the nationality issues, that you're completely on your own. They might visit once or twice if someone was imprisoned or help repatriate a dead body, but other than that they are if no help at all on a consular level.

Bestthingever if I remember rightly her husband was very modern and 'western' but he changed when the Shah was overthrown.

I've met men of different religions who appear very western and care free and not at all religious. But marrying, or the death of a parent, or maybe the birth of a child makes us all reevaluate. They can all make us more religious and sometimes that can mean a desire to do things a certain way/the way it was when we were kids etc etc.

When you marry someone from a different culture/religion (not necessarily anything to do with race of ethnicity but to do with culture and beliefs) you do not necessarily know what this will mean.

I was madly in love with an Indonesian Christian man (from a Muslim background) and even though I was young I was aware of the issues in his country around kids. It never worked out but I met others in relationships and they often went home to their country to have their kids and were aware of issues around children because of the laws in other countries.

This was in Indonesia not in the UK.

This is not to say anything about these countries or people's generally, I met amazing Indonesian people. But marriage and kids makes a significant influence on people and their behaviour.

Fanny
Thank goodness you listened to all these replies! Reading some of them made my blood run cold!

What will you do about holidays? Cote made a very valid and terrifying point.

Posted this last night but it may be helpful here..

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/children-law-relocation-holidays-abduction/

Fanny whose idea was it o have three children in three years?

You do not need to reply here but just think about that answer, please,

Would talking to Women's Aid help, you?

Your husband does not support you and he doesn't sound very caring, he puts pressure on you and blackmails you emotionally. Could your marriage be abusive?

www.womensaid.org.uk/

0808 2000 247

Glad you've decided to stay -

Op lots of Egyptians are actually trying to find employment outside the country as the economic situation is so bad. I was the one who pushed for us to move back to the UK ten years ago and dh was unsettled for a couple of years. However last month he actually said thanks for pushing him and we would have been 'screwed' if we were living there. His db will have to move his dcs from their international school as they have become so expensive due to the currency crisis. They are well off and SIL's parents are loaded so I can't imagine what it's like for others. I can't understand why a man would move his family into such a situation when they can have free education and healthcare here.

So many reasons to not go!

ALL KINDS OF NOPE

Bestthingever - yep, I teach in an international school. The Egyptian professional type parents who make up our core business are really struggling due to the currency crisis.

I'm paid in GBP so from a selfish POV the devalued EGP is great for me & my family... But it's another reason not to move to Egypt now unless you have a VERY secure income.

& to back up previous comments about children not being able to leave Egypt - British Embassy etc almost entirely toothless in this situation.

My ex is unhappy about us being in Egypt. One reason for this is that if I decided to withhold access, there would be absolutely bog all the UK authorities could do about enforcing it.

Because I work in private education, I'm also very aware of cases where a UK or US based parent has seen dc depart for a 'holiday' to Egypt & then simply remain indefinitely with the Egyptian parent.

The concerns raised on this thread are definitely not scaremongering.

Definitely don't go and make it clear to him that he is free to return there alone if he feels it will improve his life. Make it his choice whether he remains with the family and do not allow yourself to become the reason he is "forced" to stay- meaning that he can blame you.

No way would I live there.

Just looking at the ages of your children - presumably you are/will soon be looking at schools for the eldest?
I wonder if this is why your husband is suddenly having his "identity crisis".
Presumably once your eldest is at school in the UK, you won't be able to spend 6 months of the year in Egypt any more?
I bet your husband has just realised this. So you can guarantee that if you move to Egypt, you won't be back here spending 6 months in the UK as I expect their schools work in a similar way?

OP good decision. I hope you get help for the PND.

I did not expect your husband's feelings would be at least acknowledged on here, he is after all a Muslim from Egypt out of all countries. His feelings are valid, it's just that overall, your children's lives will be better here.

I would hope when and if, your children experience identity crisis you seek opinion from a more racially and culturally diverse platform than on here (as opposed to many parents who seek advice on their mixed-race children on majority white forum that MN is)so that you do not make decisions based solely on a mostly singular race.

Really glad you've decided to stay in the U.K. I'm another one who was over invested in mumsnet this Christmas.