To not want to move to DH's home country?

[fannysatdawn]

We have 3DC, 10mo, 2 and 3. DH and I met and married in the U.K but he is originally from Egypt. The situation in Egypt was always very problematic (from 2011) and is not ideal now either for a family as a preference over England. We always agreed that if the situation improves we may consider having a house there when we retire. At the moment we go there 4 times a year for about 2 weeks to a month each time.

DH has suddenly decided he wants to move there now. He says he is having an identity crisis, feels separated from his homeland and he wants his children to feel they have Egyptian heritage.

This could not have come at a worse time for me. I have had severe PND since the birth of 3rd DC, I am in the wilderness of hormones and lack of adult company (I am a full time SAHM) and I too am having an identity crisis and DH fails to see that, just because it's not cultural or patriotic, it is the full time being a mum cliche.

My parents are very close to the DC as we live in England, they are a total saving grace for me because they offer me a lot of support where DH doesn't. DH feels that his parents do not get enough time with the DC (even though we spend about 4 -5 months a year with them.)

I am very torn because I believe in equality and treating both cultures the same and allowing them equal influence and weight in the DC's lives. But I feel I have already bent over backwards to accommodate DH's wishes. Eg we always holiday in Egypt and never go to any other country. All our free time is spent in Egypt. We are teaching the DC Arabic as well as English and I am learning Arabic. I have told DH's parents our house is an open house to them, even though they are not particularly nice to me and have made it clear they are angry DH married outside of his culture.

I asked DH if I refused whether it would be a deal breaker. He said it wouldn't end our marriage but he would feel that I would have "deprived our family of an experience essential to our health, growth and happiness." Which is basically opening things up to lay blame at my door for anything that might go wrong in the future.

What do you think?

I would not go.
I've recently moved back from the Netherlands. I was there through pregnancy and until my little boy was 20 months old.
I think being a sahm can be quite isolating. Imagine how worse it would feel without your family, in a different culture, different language and laws. I feel so much better being in the U.K. and I was in a country similar to the UK.
I'm sorry but I don't get the deprivation your husband talks about. If its exposure to the culture, you sound like you are embracing their fathers culture already. What about the English culture they will be leaving behind.
It's sounds a bit like emotional blackmail to me.
Good luck if you decide to move but if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't.

No
Absolutely not

Potential for future political instability
Misogyny and public sexual harassment common
Unsupportive in-laws
Risk of your children becoming 'habitually resident' there
Not to mention the risks of you being isolated
Whilst I've spent several months in Egypt, I wouldn't want my DC to be raised there

Where has your husband's identity crisis come from?

Can I ask what his attitude is to his parents' anger over the marriage?

It's just that, given his lack of support and the fact that your inlaws "aren't especially nice to you", I wonder what his motivation really is for wanting to move you to a place where you'd have almost no rights ...

I used to live there for over 7 years and love the place. But do NOT do this. Being on holiday is absolutely not the same as living there, AT ALL, even if you have lovely family there, which you don't seem to. I can't begin to explain the number of ways it could be absolutely awful for you.

Please, please don't do it.

YANBU. Don't do it.

Actually, I would even worry about holidays there, now that you know he would rather not come back. If he doesn't consent to the kids leaving Egypt, you won't be able to bring them back to the UK.

Abduction is also not impossible. A friend's father didn't manage to take her to his country in the Middle East as a preteen with the intention of marrying her off, only because her mum had taught her to run to the police and say "My dad is taking me away without my mum's knowledge" if she ever found herself in the airport without her. That is exactly what happened.

In your place, I would hide the kids' passports but I'm paranoid like that.

I wouldn't, no. If I was presented with some kind of lucrative job offer, I may consider it for a short stint, but not just because my husband fancied going back home.

The political situation never seems to stabilise there.

His family aren't welcoming - you'll be really isolated which won't do your mental health any good. Also, what quality of mental health care is provided there? It could well be fantastic, but what if it's not and you have a crisis?

As mentioned above could you end up in situation where you aren't free to take your children out of the country without his say so?

For what it's worth, I live in the middle East albeit in a more conservative country than Egypt and I wouldn't choose to raise my children here (don't have any yet). I'm sponsored by my employer, not my husband for visa purposes so I'm free to come and go as I wish. How would it stand for you? What would happen if he divorced you? Would you have to leave and potentially leave your children with him?

You already devote a hell of a lot of time to visiting his homeland. Both my husband and I live away from our birth countries. We devote a week a year, max to family visits.

No fucking way!!

No way in hell. And if you have daughters, why would you deliberately take them to a country where they are second class citizens?

Wouldn't even discuss it.

No no no no.

No, for all the reasons pp have given above especially your support network and your rights, do not move there.

Please don't even consider it whist you have young children. You go 4 x per year. It's not as if you are depriving your children from experiencing their fathers culture. You need to reside in a country that views you as a person in your own right and not just someone's wife.

I'm sorry that your husband has changed the goal posts...but, he needs to realise that YOU have a right to express your opinions, have access to a support network and continue to be able to address your PND.

His family already think he's married outside of his culture. Imagine living with those views constantly?

Nope. And I am living in my DH's country. But his country is more stable, wealthy and better for children than the UK. All things you can't say about Egypt.

I was quite miserable for a few years here and the idea of doing it with PND and three children and less support? You would be really silly to consider it.

Absolutely no way, for all the reasons that everyone else has already discussed.

But also, your children are British (I presume). That is their culture. Not yours, or your husband's. No matter how much you want to bring them up inside of both your traditions, they are going to grow up and do their own thing.

No way in hell. Leaving aside the fact that you will be leaving your support network to live in a foreign country with relatives that don't like you and where you have very few rights...why would you leave a country where your children have access to great education, free quality healthcare and fantastic opportunities? WHY? I'm an immigrant here. I miss home sometimes too but I won't go back because I don't want to worry about what happens when my kids are seriously ill or have to pay over the odds for quality education. I don't understand it. You have a duty towards you children. They come first and going to a poor and politically unstable country is not in their best interest. That would be the end of it for me.

Hell no, there is nothing to your advantage in doing this. From your point of view it's a bonkers idea. Do not be swayed by the hormones and sleep deprivation in to thinking your gut reaction might be wrong.

You must not do this. Seriously, do not do it.

I wouldn't.

If you separate while you're there, you will likely lose the children to him. You have fewer rights as a woman in Egypt.

Don't do it.

I really regret moving moving to DH's home country as I'm so homesick and it's only the UK. And I have a very supportive DH and obviously am not living in a somewhat dangerous country with unsupportive family.
The fact you go there 5 months of the year is more than reasonable.

Egypt eh?
You have daughters I presume?

Have a read of the world health organisation website on
Female genital mutilation (FGM)

Prevalence of FGM

It is estimated that more than 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone female genital mutilation in the countries where the practice is concentrated. Furthermore, there are an estimated 3 million girls at risk of undergoing female genital mutilation every year. The majority of girls are cut before they turn 15 years old (see Figure 1).

Female genital mutilation has been documented in 30 countries, mainly in Africa, as well as in the Middle East and Asia. Some forms of female genital mutilation have also been reported in other countries, including among certain ethnic groups in South America. Moreover, growing migration has increased the number of girls and women living outside their country of origin who have undergone female genital mutilation or who may be at risk of being subjected to the practice in Europe, Australia and North America.

The prevalence of female genital mutilation has been estimated from large-scale, national surveys asking women aged 15–49 years if they have themselves or their daughters have been cut. Considerable variations have been found between the countries, with prevalence rates over 80% in eight countries. Moreover, the prevalence varies among regions within countries, with ethnicity being the most influential factor.

The type of procedure performed also varies, mainly with ethnicity. Current estimates (from surveys of women older than 15 years old) indicate that around 90% of female genital mutilation cases include either Types I (mainly clitoridectomy), II (excision) or IV (“nicking” without flesh removed), and about 10% (over 8 million women) are Type III (infibulation). Infibulation, which is the most severe form of FGM, is mostly practiced in the north-eastern region of Africa: Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, and Sudan. In West-Africa (Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso, etc.), the tendency is to remove flesh (clitoridectomy and/or excision) without sewing the labia minora and/or majora together.

References
United Nations Children’s Fund, Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting: A global concern, UNICEF, New York, 2016.
United Nations Children’s Fund, Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting: A statistical overview and exploration of the dynamics of change, UNICEF, New York, 2013.

And look at these graphs. 91% of women in Egypt are cut. Average age for mutilation of girls I n Egypt is about 10 years old.

I think you'd be absolutely crazy to go, and if that means divorce then so be it

Also I would not let any girl of mine travel to Egypt without me, and I would keep a very close eye on her for every single moment of her stay there. No popping out with granny for some shopping and lunch..

Ring the British counsel if you are in Egypt and have any worries of concerns, and contact the foreign office before you travel so you can get back to Europe quickly if needs be. They'll help you get out if your daughters are in danger.

Stay put!

No chance. On security grounds alone, let alone anything else.

If he were from Japan or Finland or Canada there'd at least be a conversation to be had, though with PND and reliant on your support network here I still wouldn't even consider it. But it cannot possibly be a sensible decision to go and live somewhere so volatile.

Also I'd think very carefully about continuing to visit.

Id go to a lawyer right now and see about your options.

If you have passports for your DC hide them or give them to your parents for safe keeping so he cant suddenly fly off with them leaving you behind.

Id take this very seriously.

Why go out there? It is politically unstable, his parents hate you, according to a 2013 UNICEF report covering 29 countries in Africa and the Middle East, Egypt has the region's highest total number of women that have undergone FGM (27.2 million), so that is a real risk if you have female children and move there. You'd have no support and be isolated.

Do not go. His parents don't approve of you as it is and that won't change if you were to move out there.