"If you want to stay in touch with OW, then you're not welcome in mine or DH's life"

[BraveDancing]

This is the message (paraphrased for brevity) that I've just received from the wife of a close friend from uni.

The OW in question is a very close friend of my OH. We are all part of the same big mob of friends. Apparently she and this guy were having an affair, which I knew nothing about. His DW found out today and sent a similar message to a number of mutual friends.

AIBU to really resent being dragged into a situation which is none of my business and none of my making? I get she's upset but I feel like she's trying to use me as a weapon to hurt the two people involved, and I dislike that intently.

Right. Quick update, and sorry for stirring up some painful memories for people.

I talked to DW last night. She apparently did know about the affair – she found out a week ago, but didn’t tell me, which I’m kind of pissed at, but she said she didn’t want to put me in an impossible situation which she felt she’d been put in. She gave me a bunch more information about the affair, which I don’t think is relevant but might be to some people here? It’s been going on since August, and has mostly been an emotional affair – texts, phone calls etc – and they slept together once. So, it’s not like there’s been lots of family money being spent etc. No real excuse for the whole thing and I can see why W is livid. It’s still cheating.

DW has already read OW the riot act and said she’s behaved badly, but she also feels quite strongly that everyone in this world deserves a couple of friends who’ll call them out on their shit, but ultimately will stick by them and has no intention of freezing out OW. We got an couple of messages from other people in the group – it appears the message I got went to a few people (six so far) and as far as we call tell most are embarrassed and unhappy, but largely want to avoid the whole thing until it blows over. I get the impression most are expecting H and W to drop out of the group now, which I guess makes sense as they were mostly OH and OW’s close friends before I got involved, and then H and W through me, as they were new to the area and didn’t really have anyone around here.

I sent W a text, as some folk suggested, just saying I had no idea this was going on, I’m very sorry to hear about it all, and I hope she feels better soon. I didn’t get a reply last night so I’m just going to leave it. We’re meant to be going round on Friday to see H and W and hand over Christmas presents and she had some baby clothes she wanted to pass on to me, but I am going to assume that’s not happening now and will keep assuming that unless I hear differently.

And to those talking about the friendships – my university friendships have always been very close, and have been the basis of most of my adult friendships. OW and OH met at uni too and became best friends and have stayed close ever since – they still live in their uni home town though. But I sort of thought that was normal.

I think you did the right thing with the message and by keeping your distance for now. Although it might seem like w is staying with her h, it is early days and they need space to make decisions.

When the dust settles perhaps you can see them separately, whilst maintaining the I don't want to take sides, stance.

I don't keep in touch with anyone from Uni.
You grow up, move on and do other things surely?

It's sad that you made no close friends at all at a formative stage of your life but what does it have to do with the OP?

ime it's not the ow who looses friendships, it's the one who has been cheated on. People don't like to hear about the pain they're in and would rather they just sort of disappeared. It's really sad. She must be going through utter turmoil at the moment, but as in my experience people seem to worry about the cheaters more than the one who's been cheated on. It's like social leprosy. People see the pain but they don't want to get too close as it might be ugly to deal with.

It's kind you text her to say you had no idea. Maybe ask her if there is anything she needs from you. If he leaves she'll be a single parent possibly(assuming they have dc) now so she'll need lots of support with that. You can offer that whilst being clear that as your dw is best friends with ow you can't cut ties with her, however you can say you are appalled at their nasty behaviour. That's fair. Unless she wants nothing to do with any of you guys anymore because she will know that naturally you'll all prefer to keep the company of the ow and even maybe her h as she is peripheral to the group anyway.

I think she must be feeling really bloody lonely as she knows she will have lost this group of friends through no fault of her own. Maybe that's why she sent the text, so she could feel that she had some control over the fact that she won't be seeing any of you again. But the reality of it is that the ow and her h have basically isolated her from the group due to their unkind behaviour and she is the one who is going to suffer.

I wouldn't be surprised if they became a couple and everyone quickly forgave the affair. I've seen that happen many a time too. Whilst the one cheated on sort of disappears.

OP, he only slept with her once?
Go post that on the Relationships board and hear how so very very very often that is lying, minimising bullshit!

Unbelievable how many people get caught after having sex once. As in, actually unbelievable.

I would react badly to being told who I could associate with. But I'd make my own decision to back off from the OW and the cheating H. Because I prefer decent people for my friends.

I'd be evasive with the wife at first because she's in a really shit place not of her own making. But down the line, I'd tell her straight - if she's forgiving her H she can hardly expect peope to cast out the equally guilty OW but stay friends with him.

Slept with her once, my arse.

I'm feeling very very sorry for the DW. What a shitty lose lose situation she's in. Do they have DC?

I can understand your OH not freezing out the OW given their close history.

I wish there was a way you/your group could stay in touch with the W, your OH could stay in touch with the OW, and you could collectively ditch the H (who is the most at fault here). Morally that's probably the right outcome. But I can't see how that's going to work.

I agree with ellisandra that the slept with her once line is bollocks and typical cheaters talk. The w has probably found a series of messages, one which alludes to them having had sex and so of course they admit to that one off but the stuff they don't have to admit to they won't. Horrific for her. She'll never forget that. Cheaters send these messages also knowing they might get caught and find that thrilling. They find it thrilling that the person who loves them may find it and have a total nervous breakdown.

ime it's not the ow who looses friendships, it's the one who has been cheated on. People don't like to hear about the pain they're in and would rather they just sort of disappeared

If this thread is anything to go by, it's nothing to do with struggling to deal with another's pain and everything to do with minimising the piss poor behaviour with 'well, you don't know what goes on behind closed doors' as if there are circumstances that would make cheating OK and the 'victim' should just suck it up. This is very much my experience. People just seem to want a 'normal' life and so accept the new person and phase out the old and agree if only she hadn't put on weight/worked harder/worked less/cooked better meals/not spent so much money/not put the children first over the ex/put the children first...then he wouldn't have been forced to look elsewhere.

Of course years later, I have enough insight to know I wasn't the easiest to live with - stubborn, single-minded, determined, stuck emotionally with an unsatisfactory career but no real understanding of what/why/how. I was also a loyal, faithful wife, a good mother, and an overall decent human being. I don't recall anyone suggesting maybe the problem was my ex. I don't believe his behaviour towards me was challenged by anyone. It was easier to believe I had done something, anything wrong. Being cut out because I no longer fit or made people uncomfortable was unfair although long term, knowing who my friends are is worth so much more. Hard to see at the time. I didn't deserve what happened to me. There is no excuse for such awful behaviour. If you are unhappy, you leave. That would have been fairer for all concerned.

I've been in a similar situation and frankly I got fed up with the philanderer and the wronged wife inflicting their drama on the rest of us. all very unsavoury and frankly I'm glad to be shot of them. Get rid of toxic "friends" and make way for people who are worth your time.

I have no idea how true it is that they slept together once. I can sort of believe it – it isn’t as if he has a lot of time to sneak off with OW or anything and the one night stand was on a group holiday weekend thing that W didn’t want to come on for some reason.

But I don’t know and I don’t really think it’s my business to start interrogating anyone.

And yes, they have one DC. It’s crap. It’s really crap, and I feel bad for W in particular, having thought about it, because she doesn’t really have any close friends of her own up here – she moved here with H for his job and then got added to our group. And I do want to be supportive if I can. But I am realistic – I can’t be the person who vilifies OW with her. I can only really wait. And I’m eight months pregnant and (as I think last night showed) apparently prone to exploding at the drop of a hat right now. So I’m probably not a sensible person to be involved on any side.

I think your reply, and then letting things lie, is the right approach here..

Maybe get back in touch with her in say 5/6 months' time when your baby is a bit older (congrats by the way) and see how she's getting on. She may be grateful for the contact (I would be if I were her) and by that stage she would have settled down and wouldn't use you as a venting outlet/weapon. Hopefully.

Sorry when I say her I mean the W.

I always find it rather baffling that on MN the person cheating is branded all kinds of evil while the person who finds out has the right to behave in any way she sees fit because she's recently just been hurt. Where does that permission end? Verbal abuse? Demands and ultimatums issued to friends who weren't involved, most likely don't want to be involved and never asked for any involvement? Criminal damage perhaps? Violence? How far should we go to excuse the behaviour of someone just because they've been hurt?

The husband and the OW were wrong. That's not in question. However, given the wife has chosen to contact people who haven't wronged her in any way, and start issuing ultimatums on behalf of not only herself but also her husband, I'm afraid I'd be thinking that it's not hard to see why he ended up having an affair. She sounds abusive. And no, shock doesn't excuse that kind of behaviour.

I would refuse to be told who I can and cannot be friends with, and would refuse to be involved in her drama.

Yes perhaps she's been hurt, but two wrongs don't make a right.

What does it matter if they slept together once or a hundred times? It's cheating the first time so any subsequent sex is kind of irrelevant.

OP and her OH are close friends, separately, with the affair partners so why would they drop them for their crime - and then form some kind of false friendship with the wife? Others in the friendship group may be closer to the wife so may distance from the husband and/or OW. Not the case for OP and her OH.

I don't like the tone some posters are using with the OP and no, you don't know anymore than she does and you don't know what's bullshit here and what isn't. Your views aren't universal and you don't have the 'script' or any kind of guidebook or instruction manual so stop with your hectoring know-it-all overlay.

BraveDancing, I understand your view exactly and there's no need to feel that you have to defend your OH either. She was in an impossible situation and I can understand why the affair partners kept it quiet from friends... how can they do otherwise when to disclose is just to pass on the unexploded bomb and hope that nobody pulls the pin. It is shit but it's not your shit to deal with, nor your OH's. It was kind of you to contact the wife and let her know that you didn't know, you don't need to do anything else and I wouldn't now, I'd leave them to sort out what they do from here without being pulled into any 'sides'.

No I wouldn't bother asking them what really happened as they will lie to you. And also needsahalo is right, the 'she didn't really fit in' or 'she should have come to the weekend away' sort of stuff will probably be bounded about to justify their shitty behaviour. She will get isolated and blamed for this.

Poor woman. Well, I can understand a new baby coming you need to concentrate on your own life. It's just sad for her to be so alone and particularly at this time of the year. People treated this way can have total nervous breakdowns if they feel totally shut out from their social group. I hope she goes to her parents for christmas.

Maybe leave it to your dw to sort out from now on in as you really don't want to get stressed at 8 months preg.

the one night stand was on a group holiday weekend thing that W didn’t want to come on for some reason.

I think this is probably quite significant, as I think the wife thinks that 'the group' therefore knew and maybe even approved, thus the ultimatum about (as she sees it) supporting their marriage. I don't think it makes her right, but it is a bit more explicable.

Oh. God.

OW has now sent a text round justifying her position. She’s calling it ‘an apology and explanation’ but it’s basically a justification.

I am going to go back to bed and ignore the whole bloody world. I may write a new AIBU. AIBU to just not want to know, and to not want to be involved and to not think it’s appropriate that this entire situation is being broadcast this bloody loudly. I know I’m probably being sanctimonious here but it’s excruciating to watch. No one should be doing this. This isn’t my sex life. I’m not meant to know.

Someone tell me if it’s U to block all three of them from my phone until the new year?

I would be inclined to message her back telling her that you don't want to take sides and that you don't want to be involved. And then stop communicating on the matter with all of them.

None of them should be dragging anyone else into their mess.

Oh FFS, Morris, get over yourself. It's not remotely sexist to point out that the OP's OH might not like what her friend has done or support her. It doesn't matter if the friend was the OW or the married man, and nothing in my post said otherwise. Shove your sexism claim, there was none there.

If any of my friends fucked each other behind their spouses' backs, it would affect our friendship, because I don't want friends who deliberately fuck others over, whether it's for shagging or not. How do you know this friendship circle will be different?

OW has now sent a text round justifying her position

Fuck's sake. Yes, I would ignore the lot of them at the moment. All of them need to get a grip.

Not U no. Especially as you're 8 months pg. Go ahead and block.

Just text them all that you don't want to get involved at all but are sorry that this is causing a rift between the group. You are not going to fall out with anybody but that you don't wish to hear any details.

Make sure w knows that you weren't aware of it until now, that you don't condone it, but are happy to continue seeing her with the proviso it might be best that you don't discuss this further as you have divided loyalties for obvious reasons.