AIBU or does a manager leaving a 32 week pregnant woman on her own in London smack of ignorance?!

[melmel89]

So I'm 32 weeks pregnant and had to work an event in London this week-hours of standing and also tracking across London travelling. We went on a meal afterwards and obviously being tired I wanted to go back to the hotel afterwards. My manager got in a taxi and said "you know where you're going then" and shut the door....I nearly burst into tears. Firstly I didn't and secondly why should I be left like that because he wants to go drinking?? Am I being unreasonable?

OTOH our office Christmas party when I was in the civil service was in a room on the third floor with the desks pushed back. Bring your own wine. Office provided paper cups.

Our staff get to claim travel expenses from home - unless they are travelling off-base then they would have to pay tax on this. Paying commuting costs counts as salary.

Ah, the Civil Service, is the gravy train still rumbling along?

"Ah, the Civil Service, is the gravy train still rumbling along?"

The gravy train of paying for your own tea and coffee and your own Christmas party?
It's quite right that travelling time should be paid. It's time taken from your free time.

You're pregnant, not a child

Sorry, are we talking about travelling time to commute to and from home, Francis, or travelling time during the working day on office business? If the latter, that's obviously fine. But I really don't see why my employer should pay for my travel time because I choose to take a job that isn't next door to where I live.

I normally see red when people start whinging on about public sector fat cats, but I do think that would be taking the piss a bit. In fact, I'm a bit puzzled - many years ago I worked in a very minor Civil Service job and no-one ever offered to pay me for travel time. Is it a perk for more senior ranks?

"I really don't see why my employer should pay for my travel time because I choose to take a job that isn't next door to where I live."

No, but if the employer relocates, you should be paid at least the cost of commuting if not the actual travel time. I know of someone whose public sector employer transferred in this way. The employees agreed not to have travel paid for in return for not having redundancies. The council then went on to cut jobs anyway.

We pay travel time and costs from moment people leave home.
I was on train to Birmingham writing and left first with two others. Six of team weren't drinking at all, none were making a night of it as most had 1-2 hour journeys. We were going for a pleasant Christmas lunch not a hen night. Maybe we are just older but I don't think any of my children would get so drunk they slept with a colleague or photocopied their backsides. It's just not very nice behaviour. Yes our professional code of conduct would apply to inappropriate behaviours on work premises and it would be viewed very, very seriously.

Sorry, one question. How do you include everyone at such drunken events? What about Muslim colleagues?

Most of my works do's have been in the evening, not the daytime. Some people only stay for the meal. Some stay/move on for drinks afterwards and some of them will indeed end up clubbing until 3am.

I think a Christmas meal at lunchtime (like the one Crumbs is talking about) is far less likely to result in people getting pissed up or photocopying their buttocks.

How do you include everyone at such drunken events? What about Muslim colleagues?

We do something non-boozy in the afternoon like going to the theatre, then go for dinner and then have drinks afterwards

Tbh, both my Muslim colleagues come to the drinks afterwards and stay out as long as everyone else. They're the people who are annoyingly chirpy the next morning and remember all of the gossip and scandal!

I would think 'inviting everyone' is far from inclusive. Just being told we are having drinks from 12, (with stories from previous year suggest clothes may be removed and behaviour may return to that of drunken 15 year olds) would be enough for most people I work with to turn down the invitation and to be feeling left out. If whole team did not feel sufficiently comfortable to attend, we wouldn't do it. Large quantities of alcohol is a definite no, no for some cultures or individuals. It is not a personal decision if what is happening is not acceptable to your religious or cultural beliefs (protected characteristic in law) so we would never support such activity during work time.

In our organisation it would remain gross misconduct to get your bottom out at work. It is indecent exposure and could offend many. I don't see anyone at work laughing about it. I asked my husband who runs an office based company and they too would sack someone for doing so. In a school you would be likely to face more than the sack if you did so. Ofsted would expect LADO to be informed and, if unlucky, could find yourself on sexual offenders register. It's just tacky, yobbishness and more than slightly 'rough hen party behaviour' that is not appropriate in many workplaces.

How it can be acceptable to behave in a way that is likely to cause offence, to exclude certain people and potentially breach the law yet cause anger to offer to get someone who is heavily pregnant a taxi, I will never be able to understand. This is not 'feminism' or independent women. Feminism is about women supporting and respecting each other - rowdy drunkenness excludes many and denying the additional support needs of pregnancy does women no favours. Women (actually, no, people) should look after each other not rip them apart because in a strange city, late at night they felt a little vulnerable.

Most of our staff are home based so an hour or two commute is the exception, not the norm. Three people stayed to go on to a wine bar. None went clubbing. Trains were dodgy but I don't think that was the reason.

Your workplace sounds a real laugh, Crumbs. Full of glum people looking for offence/upset at being away from their family for a couple of hours/ and completely lacking in any festive cheer. Or perhaps they know they'd get the sack if they ate a sneaky mince pie and a Famous Names liqueur chocolate on premises.

I've a good mind to apply to this workplace and shake the place up a bit. Might break the photocopier with my fat arse, stuff my face with a turkey & brie (non-vegan) sandwich and belt out a few Christmas carols. At least I'd know Crumbs would accompany me home in a taxi afterwards even if I got the sack for gross misconduct.

Good grief Crumbs

As the saying goes it is an invite not a summons. If people don't want to go then they don't. If they do they do.

You come accross as sneering at others that disagree with you.

My DH went to his works do yesterday. He didn't drink as he was driving (and as I am unwell he needed to be ok this am.) Nor did a few others including for religious reasons or choice. Some did drink. Each to their own.

I'd die rather than photocopy my arse! The shame of needing A3 paper would be mortifying

Diemme I don't think anyone's arse would be an A4 tbh...

Diemme grin I don't think anyone's arse would be an A4 tbh

Mine certainly wouldn't

I'm sure I remember something from my Equality training that any works do which disproportionately excludes a group of people who share a protected characteristic could be considered indirect discrimination? The case of boozy lunches/drinks and Muslims was a specific example.

If someone has to repeatedly 'choose to decline' an invitation because the invitation is not compatible with their belief set, how is that acceptable? Mist (but not all) of my Muslim colleagues don't join us for non-work drinks on Fridays, but I am hyper aware of making sure our work lunches are at restaurants, not pubs, and cater for everyone's dietary requirements.

Sort of hoping one of Crumbs' toe-the-line employees is reading this with pound signs in their eyes and thinking "ker-ching!" at thought of tribunal payout.

Often see "ignorant" used as a synonym for "rude".... reckon not so much a class thing as an intelligence/education thing (albeit I realise that's often one of the same).

No neither in HR but both very well informed in HR issues. Husband is CEO with several thousand staff. He definitely knows what his organisation would do. I am sufficiently senior to know my organisations expectations and sanctions. Tribunals have supported organisation over dismissal on lesser offences. Luckily, thousands of staff like working for us very much so there is very rarely a need to instigate any such proceedings. We make explicit our expected standards of behaviour on offering a job - from office staff to senior managers.

Its clearly a different interpretation of 'fun'. I can't see any of my team wanting to photocopy their body parts, drunk or sober. Our offices are all open plan so no doing it surreptitiously! If the office staff choose to go out for a night of heavy drinking, they can use the nightclub photocopier to their hearts delight. It would not be a work event, in work time or using work name on reservation.