AIBU to want to carry on this interesting discussion about the Child Protection System?

[Spero]

Following on from this www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2792849-AIBU-to-be-horrified-by-the-Stolen-Children-of-England?

I thought it was interesting. Some people didn't agree with me and said they would tell me why. I would like to hear their views.

How exciting? When will you write this article and what is it about?

(Im not really comfortable with being drawn into an attack on another poster. Especially as I know bog all about the subject and just keep asking random and probably stupid questions)

Has anyone in government ever done a cost analysis of intervention/mother baby units/rehab help versus care and adoption? I know it's morally repugnant to break it down to cost, but that's the bottom line

I have got a horrible feeling that yes they have. And adoption works out (superficially) cheaper.

I hope I can write something useful as guidance to LA that yes, actually you do have to pay attention to the test as set out in the Adoption and Children Act 2002. And it would also be nice if you read and paid attention to the recent case law.

The bloke on the bus just reminded me of that tale -for want of a nail, the shoes was lost...
If she'd got a m&b place she could have kept the baby. Or if he wasn't a drinker he could have. Or failing those, if the foster carerhad been closer they could have visited more, which would have meant the SWs approving the return of the child, which would have meant more help for the parents. - oh yes that was another thing he said - once the child was removed, her mental health help decreased to bare minimum as the child was safe, so no need?!!

I have got a horrible feeling that yes they have. And adoption works out (superficially) cheaper.
Urgh :(

Name - this is the fundamental bedrock of the problem.

If society is not geared towards providing help and support, then the whole system just grinds against parents. Their poverty or mental health issues or drug addiction etc is not seen as something they could face with support. It is used as a reason to break up their families.

And yes, some people ARE awful, dangerous parents and they could get all the help in the world and their children would still suffer. But some aren't. And at the moment everyone is being pushed into one big melting pot and being told - you have 26 weeks to sort it out, get cracking.

And this 26 week time limit for care proceedings is the brain child of politicians. Hemming would have been serving MP when Children and Families Act 2014 was debated. WHAT WAS HE DOING.

I'll repeat the question for you. 14/12/16 at 07:49, someone called Offrambling wrote " I could pull your opinions, which you state as facts, apart". You have misquoted this a number of times by adding the words "line by line". Then other mnetters have copied you. Actually this could be a good example of what could possibly happen in the Family Court. One professional misquotes, others follow. See how easily this could happen? Anyhow, is it libel the misquoting or does it not count on an anonymous site? Maybe you could ask the Judge you've just been in contact with?

Seenthetruth

thanks for that clarification. Misquoting is not necessarily libel.

Libel is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.[1] (thank you wikipedia).

So I think you are getting a bit carried away. If Offrambling didn't say 'line by line' then I am sorry I added that. I clearly made a mistake. I apologise. However, I don't see that I have harmed her reputation in any way by so doing. the central message she gave me was clear enough.

And I note she never came back.

Or DID she...?

26 weeks to recover from post natal psychosis and breakdown when you don't get to see your baby often. Like that's achievable especially with that sort of axe hanging over you.
FFS I got post natal anxiety, but I had my baby, and was still a wreck at 26 weeks!
So. How can we change it? There must be something us ordinary people can do (other than vote for those other bastards at the next election)? Petitions? Are there any charities that help fund m&b units or interventions?

There are some very good individual charities around the country that do really good work - but its all a bit hit and miss depending on your area.

Annie of Surviving Safeguarding is trying to set up a nationwide scheme to train parent advocates - we know this works as it has worked in Finland and NYC.

The Family Rights Group is doing something with the Your Family Your Voice Alliance but I am not sure what as despite being a member they have never sent me any information.

I will be organising another conference on June 9th at UWE with Dr Lauren Devine and we will be trying to get our 'Hub' off the ground - bringing together everyone with an interest in this and pooling our resources and knowledge so we don't keep reinventing the wheel.

It makes me want to be sick with rage; the amount of money Josephs and Hemming have spent on caravans and funding paedophiles etc could have paid for a parent advocacy scheme 100 times over. Then people could have been really helped.

I was going g to volunteer with Home Start once DS gets a bit older, but after learning more about this due to this thread (especially reading that blog and meeting bus bloke) I just can't do nothing :(

I think that would be great. Some parents would benefit from a non judgmental person to support and mentor them. The whole CP system is now very adversarial and levels of distrust and fear are high - for reasons which I know Seenthetruth feels I have already explained at great and tedious length.

Its like the starfish on the beach story. Although the little boy could not rescue every starfish who had washed to shore, he made a difference to the ones he put back into the sea.

Name your questions aren't stupid at all. I think I know how you feel, i've heard a few shocking accounts myself, I feel angry about it all a lot of the time especially when/ if parents are not believed.

It's not a brilliant disguise is it?

come on, I'm totally fooled. All credit really.

It's the cyber equivalent of a polyester tam-o-shanter with curly ginger locks poking out...

Hah! I think that's putting it a trifle accurately....

Conserve LOL but you're wrong. Wishful thinking on your part because you all wanted to see a fight. As in that Harry bloke "Fiiiiight"

seen you appear to have missed the second part of my post, where I said something along the lines of 'or on a thread about or triggered by something to do with JH and his ramblings'

If I start a thread about burnt toast I'm going to have to expect that people posting on that thread may very well be posting about burnt toast. It's much the same thing, I can't then go on that thread and berate people for referencing burnt toast that would be ridiculous.

I agree that there are huge huge issues within the CP system and the vast majority of those issues happen long before adoption occurs and IMO most frequently when adoption is not even on the table and it is my opinion that these issues damage the integrity of the system and trust in it more than almost anything else. But nobody ever wants to talk about that

Eh? I have been raising issues about the integrity of the system from before proceedings are issued. The fundamental problems are reduction of support and over burdened social workers I think. So they don't have time or space to actually help people.

I note with sadness but no surprise that Seenthetruth has nothing to offer this debate but increasingly desperate attempts to shut me up.

I want to see a fight? Yeah. That's right. I'm the weird belligerent one here. Good point.

Yeah conserve, stop picking fights. Troublemaker.
To be fair, seen has a lot more time on his hands in the last 18 months. Plenty of time to follow spero around or Google alert some key phrases.

Namejustfornappies, volunteering to support parents is a really positive thing to do but just remember that the man on the bus is unlikely to have offered up a totally unvarnished version of events - who would reveal things to a stranger on a bus that includes unpleasant things about themselves?

I note with sadness that I have tried to alert you to the fact that you continuously advertise the conspiracists. I was previously here as Haystack but i'm leaving this thread now because I am sick to death of hearing about a bunch of non important people, when at this very moment so many families are suffering. The way you just discounted the parents on the radio show was despicable. Babyname explained to you over and over that his link was about the parents. I actually got to like you at one point but that was short- lived. You've actually given your own example of how reports are embellished, you're obsessed with a bunch of old conspiracists to the point of sounding demented. I hope I never speak to you again however I will be quoting your admission of focus being on removal rather than support. Simply because the non believers will listen to the words of a Barrister, as they do on this thread. I feel sorry for your own parents to have a daughter whose work involves removing children rather than support.

comehomemax i know, i expext expect there was a lot more to it. If I could be very judgy and make assumptions I would suspect both parents have low/no literacy, and certainly blokes personal hygiene left a lot to be desired, so the house might be similar. I have friends who's houses I will not take my children to play at because of the grime, yet are loving parents otherwise, and haven't had their children taken - so I know the threshold must be pretty grim.
As I said I was going to wait a few years when DS is bigger, but I can't wait now, after Christmas I'm going to find a local charity who could accept some help I can do while encumbered with my own kids - even if it's just contributing to a cake sale. I'm not the type of person who can just handwring then do nothing.

Good for you, name - I'm sure there are lots of charities out there that would appreciate the support.

Seen - are you 10?? That's quite the tantrum you've got going on there.