To think the nursery manager was right?

[user1478265589]

My friend works in a nursery. Last week just before 8.30am (a busy time for them and they were short-staffed as two nursery nurses were late) an unknown woman bashed on the door, and when the manager answered, said she needed to use their toilet. She was insistent and emotional, said she had Crohn's and had the right to come in as she was registered disabled. Nursery manager said no and directed her to the public loos about 3 mins away. Woman then soiled herself, and asked to come in to clean herself up. Again, manager said no.

Since then, this has massively kicked off on Facebook, with the nursery and manager 'named and shamed,' the woman has said she'll report the nursery to Ofsted and the police and there's nasty posts all over the nursery's FB page. Staff are worried the nursery will be shut down; manager is very upset at the vitriol and insults being aimed at her.

AIBU to think the nursery manager didn't do anything wrong?

Also, at my children's previous preschool while I know on occassions they had parents come in to ask questions without appointment using the toilets was no allowed at all, including for those of us who dropped and picked up our children every day.

Should have done a 'Country poo'. Were there no bushes around?

I feel a bit iffy about posting the name of the nursery

I chose to make my first call in person unannounced so I could see what they were really like. In all four nurseries I was invited in immediately off the street to have a look round, often with the nursery manager saying brightly 'We normally like to make appointments, but...'. I didn't have a child with me, it was just me - a lone female with a large handbag.

Most nurseries I've look round have require prior notice - I assume in your case they had enough staff around so they could accommodate you - which if you read the OP wasn't the case here. They were short staffed.

Pick up and drop off times are very busy - in fact one of the council nurseries where we used to live near rightly got into big trouble when a child got out during this time. Parents ignored sign to have door close at all times not hold or prop open and staff hadn't noticed - every other morning they had a staff member there ensuring it. Child got outside unnoticed and the nursery had to overall all it's procedures and quite a few parents withdrew their children in response to incident. It certainly put me off every using it.

I'll bet in the time she spent making a fuss at the door (nurseries aren't usually quick at opening doors ime) she could have walked 3 minutes down the road to the public toilets.

I absolutely agree that the nursery manager behaved correctly. I would be glad of her vigilance (too many of us are conditioned to be 'people pleasers' at all costs!) if my child attended her nursery.

I'd be interested to know how much time the woman with Crohn's stood there arguing her case. Surely time better spent locating an appropriate alternative facility...

I work in a school and part of that involves nursery visits. I am DBS checked and am always signed in. However, when you are in a lot of setting, you see the reality (the courier is a good example). It's definitely not as cut and dry as this thread would make out.

Can't stand keyboard vigilantes. Why on earth would the police or ofsted be interested. "I'm arresting you for not letting a stranger in to shit in your loo."

user don't post the name of the nursery.

That page and this thread should be kept separate.

Can you PM the nursery name instead?

close the facebook page down. no need for it.

Then it won't come up in Google

However, when you are in a lot of setting, you see the reality (the courier is a good example). It's definitely not as cut and dry as this thread would make out.

I do image there a lot of common sense involved - but I can certainly understand why the staff at this nursery decided to say no that morning at that time with less staff than usual.

I don't think we should vilify the woman with Crohn's, it's a terrible condition and I suspect she wasn't there very long at all before she soiled herself so not helpful to suggest her time would be better spent looking for somewhere more suitable. Loo's that are 3 minutes away are usually about 2 minutes too far away.

She's angry and humiliated but her anger is misplaced and the only one likely to end up in legal strife is her if she continues to slur the nursery on social media.

Little Well I have worked in a number of schools and I have also been responsible for writing safeguarding policies and ensuring that they are followed.

The fact that some schools/nurseries might not follow correct procedure, or might not have written a procedure to follow, or might have a procedure that allows for this, does not mean that this particular nursery was in the wrong for its manager's decision to follow theirs.

Surely you can see that?

I wonder what your role in the school is?

^I work in a school and part of that involves nursery visits. I am DBS checked and am always signed in. However, when you are in a lot of setting, you see the reality (the courier is a good example). It's definitely not as cut and dry as this thread would make out.*

So you work in a school, have a DBS check and still think any random person should be allowed access if they demand it?

Absolutely the nursery manager did nothing wrong. Im sure Ofsted will say the same thing . I mean what are they going to say. We're shutting you down because you didn't let a stranger in to your nursery. The parents to will be in 110% agreement with her as well. I doubt they'd be pleased had she let a stranger in.
. Its awful what this woman has, but. The manager's duty is to her children and her staff.
You can't just let random people in. FGS. What are people thinking of.
And Yes as milk says. She could have had a gun.

No, I didn't say that. I'm saying that, although it's an expectation of me because of my role, it's not a universal expectation for other people (who do not do my role). But I do see a lot of settings and see the rule of discretion that's allowed.

The argument if whether discretion could have been used in this case.

It sounds like an awful situation for the poor lady... but the manager did absolutely nothing wrong. Her duty is to the children in the nursery and ensuring they are safe. Allowing unknown individuals into the building isn't appropriate.

FWIW, MIL has a similar card due to complications from another health issue. She uses it often, but always thinks carefully about where to ask. A nursery just isn't an appropriate place, especially as other facilities were available nearby.

Speaking as both a mum of a toddler at nursery, and a woman with severe crohns, the manager absolutely did the right thing.

I understand all too well the feeling of being desperate for the loo, the excruciating pain, the embarrassment of soiling yourself. If I found myself in this instance, I would have given up at the first no and rushed to the public toilets, or behind the nearest building or bush. I have a bag now so don't have this trouble anymore!

Keeping our children safe is always the first priority. This woman could have been anyone.

I'd like to know where I could go to stick up for those of us with crohns who totally support the nursery managers decision. Cannot stand entitled people!

Although I sympathize with the woman and it's sad that we have to assume the worst of people, I think the manager was right to not let her in. I wouldn't expect to be able to go into a nursery to use the loo, there were other public toilets nearby, and it was a busy time when they couldn't spare a member of staff to accompany her and wait outside the door.

At DD's old playgroup prospective parents could visit at any time. But with a member of staff next to them. Although now I think about it, the playgroup was in a big room and the toilets outside so a visitor could have then gone to the loos by themselves - think children didn't go to the look alone though.

The argument if whether discretion could have been used in this case.

But 'discretion' means it's still the manager's decision. Discretion is not the same as 'we haven't accounted for this situation but you have an obligation if you're asked'.

She made a decision in that situation that she was perfectly within her rights and expectations to make.

The reality is that people working in childcare have to be constantly risk assessing and often make very quick judgements as to whether something is safe or not. There will be some things which are a definite no, some which are a maybe, others which depend hugely on details of the setting. So a nursery which gets a courier delivery at 2pm and has a separate disabled or staff loo which is not accessible to children might let a courier use it. A nursery which only has shared school style toilet blocks and is asked at peak puck up time would almost certainly say no.

This nursery manager knows her setting, knew her staffing levels and knows how busy it was at that time.