To think the nursery manager was right?

[user1478265589]

My friend works in a nursery. Last week just before 8.30am (a busy time for them and they were short-staffed as two nursery nurses were late) an unknown woman bashed on the door, and when the manager answered, said she needed to use their toilet. She was insistent and emotional, said she had Crohn's and had the right to come in as she was registered disabled. Nursery manager said no and directed her to the public loos about 3 mins away. Woman then soiled herself, and asked to come in to clean herself up. Again, manager said no.

Since then, this has massively kicked off on Facebook, with the nursery and manager 'named and shamed,' the woman has said she'll report the nursery to Ofsted and the police and there's nasty posts all over the nursery's FB page. Staff are worried the nursery will be shut down; manager is very upset at the vitriol and insults being aimed at her.

AIBU to think the nursery manager didn't do anything wrong?

It's clearly a horrible position for the woman to be in.

But. If I were to find out that my DCs nursery had allowed a random stranger in to use their toilets - especially if the nursery was short staffed and it was a peak drop off / pick up time - I'd be very upset with nursery, and I'd be seriously questioning whether their safeguarding procedures were fit for purpose. I can't imagine ofsted thinking it suitable to let a stranger in to use nursery toilets on request either, disabled or not.

FWIW, the staff toilet at my DCs nursery is positioned right next to a cloakroom area for one of the children's rooms, and doubles as a toilet for primary school aged breakfast club / out of school club children. So it'd be a safeguarding risk to allow a stranger (or parent) unsupervised access to the toilet, and in the understaffed scenario in the OP, it'd also be a safeguarding risk to supervise the stranger because it'd mean staff : child ratios couldn't be met while staff were supervising the stranger in the toilet instead of doing their job.

Hopefully this won't be too damaging to the nursery.

I don't have crohn's but I do have a bowel condition that means I need to be near a loo pretty much all the time, and I agree with the nursery manager. I'm sorry that this happened to the woman, but if there were public loos a couple of minutes away she could have gone there. Random strangers coming into a nursery just isn't ok, and the manager was safeguarding children under her care.

Horrible situation for all involved and I do feel for the woman but the nursery manager was right: safeguarding the children in her care is her priority. She did her best by directing the woman to the nearest toilets.

are there big nappies for this kind of thing? (genuine question, not being goady)

The nursery manager was in the right. If it was my child at the nursery I'd be happy that she wasn't letting in strangers whatever the personal circumstances. It very unfortunate for the women in question but the manager put the children's safety first. She didn't know this women and in this day and age you can't be too careful. I'd do exactly the same if i was the manager. There are shops, public loos etc.

pepperpot99

There are continence pads/pants available, some of which are aimed at fecal incontinence. Not sure how well they would work with a large amount of diarrhoea though.

The nursery was right. I am very sorry for the poor lady but its the safety of the dcs that is paramount.

I think that whether or not the nursery manager 'had to' let the woman use the facilities is beside the point, how lacking in empathy must you be to when presented with card, blue badge, etc and told what the issue is to not quickly take woman to the loo (no safeguarding issue there). And to then not even let her clean herself up. It's really quite horrid behaviour.

There is no room for this kind of stuff in regulations though.

The rules and regulations don't state "in case of fecal accident please let public in" it doesn't work like that at all.

The rules re there for a reason and have to be strictly adhered to in order to remain open.

Fir instance a licensed premises where under 18s are banned would not be allowed to let an under 18 in even of she was going to soil herself.

There could easily be a safeguarding issue - it was busy drop off period and the manager was manning the door. If she is supervising the woman who she has taken to the toilets then she can't watch the door. I'd expect the other nursery staff were in individual playrooms (layout dependent) so if she's taking this woman to the loo, nobody is watching the door. Parents do not close the door after themselves, trust me. So, she takes desperate woman to toilet, a parent who is already inside dropping off their little one leaves and doesn't pull the door fully closed and suddenly the nursery door is unlocked.

Nope, no safeguarding risk there. None.

The manager had to make a decision based on her facility, her staffing levels, how busy it was, who else was on the premises, etc.

The manager was completely in the right
The children come first
Every time

I know it was completely different, but with tragedies such as Dunblane, we learned that places with groups of children need to be kept secure.

Psychopaths lie. Psychopaths can be women.

Crohns is a awful disease, and "can't wait" cards are essential, but only for use in appropriate places. Schools and nurseries are not appropriate places for grown adults to seek help.

My son has inflammatory bowel disease and I volunteer for Crohns and Colitis UK so I have every sympathy for the woman but I think for once I'm on the side of the nursery.

It is really hard having to navigate the world around where toilets are, even with a 'can't wait' card and radar key. You often have to plan a route in case you're caught out. The nursery teacher's first priority is the safeguarding of the children which is why doors are locked. You can't just let anyone in who says they need a shit.

I wouldn't let a stranger in to use to the toilet at the playscheme, and anyone who let a stranger in to use the toilets would probably find themselves no longer working there. I also think the more insistent they were about coming in the less likely I'd be to let them in - if that makes sense? The doors are locked for a reason and once people start making exceptions to policies then that way trouble lies (who decides which policies are bendable and which aren't?).

The bottom line is what's the worst that can happen. The worst that can happen to the nursery is that kids could be harmed or put in danger. The worst that can happen to the unfortunate lady is she soils herself. I know which I'd choose.

A number of years ago I worked at a nursery and a parent with two young DC (not at or known to the nursery) knocked at the door asking to use the toilet. I refused, much to her indignation, and was backed up by the manager when I let her know later on.

An unfortunate incident but nursery toilets are not public toilets.

I suspect all those leaving the one stars have no need of childcare. And if they ever do, their opinions may change.

Would anyone ever nip into a primary school or secondary school and ask to use the toilet? I suspect not. But it's the same thing. And tbh, a secondary school might have security on site to escort someone.

She's in the wrong and the people backing her up are in the wrong. I feel for her situation but she had other options.

As a crohns suffer since I was 7 I totally agree with the manger on this one.
I would not want a stranger going into my child's nursery. I don't see how anyone would think that's even allowed.
I have the can't wait card but was under the impression it was meant only for restaurant and shops.
I've had many accidents on the way home from school as a teen as was to embarrassed to even use the school toilets. No way would I knock on a nursery or someone's house to use there toilet.