Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

settle an argument?

206 replies

myoriginal3 · 11/12/2016 17:30

Where was Jesus from?
I know he was born in Bethlehem. Is that in Israel?
I also know he was reared in Nazareth wherever that is.
But where was Mary fleeing from?
Who told herod about her pregnancy
And dh wants to know what Jesus surname was. I have suggested Christ

OP posts:
SeriousSteve · 11/12/2016 20:55

Fascinating thread. I always enjoy decent debates. Like many others I've been on the fence so long I'm firmly attached.

Misselthwaite · 11/12/2016 21:00

I love discussions like this. There was a fascinating radio 4 programme on about the stories in the bible. I really recommend it.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b072j3g0

brokenshoes · 11/12/2016 21:40

I read a fascinating debate about the historicity of Jesus on mumsnet a few years ago:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/1699996-The-Great-Jesus-debate-Did-he-exist-at-all-and-if-he-did-what-reasons-do-we-have-to-believe-he-was-divine

pklme · 11/12/2016 21:51

Actually, the stable is really controversial at the moment among those who care about historicity!

OurBlanche · 11/12/2016 21:54

Historicity?

Are you all working on new words?

Hiatorically still gets my vote Smile

No! Wait! Historicity is a real word! Yay! It's a bit late but there it is, my new word for the day. Thank you Star

pklme · 11/12/2016 21:54

I'm always happy to talk about this kind of thing, and whether it matters or not. I do get irritated by people who take the opportunity to bang the atheist drum and express shock at the stupidity of all us poor naive believers, though... Go and start your own faith bashing thread, and let OP ask questions in peace.

OurBlanche · 11/12/2016 22:00

Who was that aimed at?

Weird!

WankersHacksandThieves · 11/12/2016 22:07

Tis weir, even weirder that apparently only Christians are allowed comment on the historic existence of Jesus.

Whether he was a snake oil salesman or a bona fide messiah isn't really up for debate.

OurBlanche · 11/12/2016 22:08
Grin
pklme · 11/12/2016 22:29

No, absolutely not only Christians allowed! I commented because earlier in the thread there were lots of general posts along the lines of how stupid it is to believe in this shit. That isn't what Op was asking though. There has been a really good discussion about how much historical evidence there is/could ever be for the existence of a minor prophet called Jesus who stirred up trouble in a small region around the year 20AD.

Whether said prophet actually was 'the son of God', whether God exists and intervenes in the world, and whether people who believe that will believe anything, is a different conversation.

Also the digging about in the traditional nativity story, where it came from, what actually happened historically- it is an interesting conversation for some people regardless of their faith. There are lots of little historical details which add to the story- there was a spectacular comet around that time. That doesn't mean that God sent it to guide philosophers to the cradle of a baby boy. It's still interesting though.

And if you want to write it off as a load of nonsense not worth thinking about, that's absolutely your right. Why hang around here though, where people who do find it interesting are having a chat? It's like going into a bar when a big football match is on and complaining loudly that it's not as good as rugby.

Oops, long post, sorry. Must have used up all my patience earlier...

lasttimeround · 11/12/2016 22:35

Watched one of those great black history docs on beeb last week and in passing they talk about the idea of the 3 Kings as being from 3 continents becoming popular with colonialism and slavery as the idea of Christianity bringing the world together under one king (christ) held increasing sway jn popular imagination in Britain at that time. Therefore caspar became the African king in performances and depictions of the birth of christ.

BTW love the debate thread really interesting

OurBlanche · 11/12/2016 22:38

No one on this thread has said anything about it being ridiculous to "believe in this shit"

There were a coupe of comments about it all being fiction... but, as no ridiculing

And if you want to write it off as a load of nonsense not worth thinking about, that's absolutely your right. Who here is the you you refer to?

Why hang around here though, where people who do find it interesting are having a chat? It's like going into a bar when a big football match is on and complaining loudly that it's not as good as rugby.
I think you may have been reading another, similar thread. That hasn't happened here. The first sour note was own post accusing someone of faith bashing!

EastMidsMummy · 11/12/2016 22:54

Having said all that, it remains completely ridiculous to believe in this shit and it's a point that shouldn't remain unsaid.

DailyFail1 · 11/12/2016 22:54

He wasn't Palestinian, as Palestine in it's current form probably didn't exist back then. Bethleham was part of Canaan which was where the semetic speaking peoples of multiple religions lived. It was also where King David (Jesus' ancestor) was born. I'm more interested in Mary Magdeline- was always taught by my gran that she was Jesus' wife as she was taught this by the convent where she was raised. Yet this isn't a commonly held belief & the first I read anything to support this was a Dan Brown novel. could there be a reason why this was still being taught in christian convents up to the 1930s?

WankersHacksandThieves · 11/12/2016 22:55

Honestly, if I wanted to have a Christian bashing thread I'd be quite happy to contribute.

Surely part of whether Jesus existed or not, has to touch upon the motivation of people to subvert the records in order to support their own agenda? I think it's a good thing that people are happy to nail their opinions to the cross so we know from which premise they are posting.

I haven't seen any personal attacks in either direction and honestly pklme if your faith doesn't stand up to some gentle generic ribbing then maybe you need to rethink.

OurBlanche · 11/12/2016 22:58

Such a pity! As the OP was such a fun one...

lasttimeround · 11/12/2016 23:12

And here we go

myoriginal3 · 11/12/2016 23:18

Well by golly this thread has informed me! I actually have more questions now than when I started the thread.

OP posts:
Annie592 · 12/12/2016 00:09

Fascinating thread! At risk of sounding like the class nerd, can any of the super knowledgable posters point me in the direction of further reading?!

myoriginal3 · 12/12/2016 00:25

Is there any documented evidence of herod and the babies being killed?

OP posts:
DailyFail1 · 12/12/2016 00:56

If you agree that the holy aspects of the story of Jesus' birth was lifted out of the story Krishna's birth, then it wasn't Herod but Kans (or maybe even some other king if Krishna's birth story came from an even older story) who was killing babies left right and centre.

DailyFail1 · 12/12/2016 00:57

Child sacrifice did and still does happen in ancient Asia and Africa. It was considered very unusual in the Middle East.

myoriginal3 · 12/12/2016 01:05

Still happens in ancient Asia?

OP posts:
JustAnotherPoster00 · 12/12/2016 02:42

Annie592

This is a good place to start

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jesus_Mysteries

pklme · 12/12/2016 07:56

Oh well, my bad, I can't scroll back to see what wound me up.

There is a site called biblearcheology which has some interesting articles. It is written from a faith POV, but looking to see what historical, archeological evidence there is. It's an interesting read. The whole development of the bible is historically fascinating, regardless of faith.