to think school can't require dd to come back in the evening for performance?

[tankerdale]

Genuinely don't know if IABU. DD is year 4. Christmas production is a play featuring mainly years 5&6, other children are required to be in a choir. Performance is 6pm on a Friday night which means dropping dd at 5.15 and collecting about 8.15 or going to watch. Dd has end of term-it is, is ryb down and doesn't want to do it. I have two younger children, youngest is 1 and DH isn't reliably back home til 8.30pm so it's really impractical for me to watch or to drive and drop her/collect her with the others. If she wanted to do it I'd probably try harder to make arrangements but she's adamant she doesn't want to. They've been told they have to come back for it unless there's a good reason - but aibu to say she can't come because of practicalities? They can't require it can they?

Does she regularly have "meltdowns"?

I ask because tbh, if an 8 yr old was having them, simply because of participating in what is generally for the children or staying up past 8 o clock (on a Friday!) in the best part of the whole year, then I'd be asking why. Are they genuine meltdowns (it's a very specific term) or are they tantrums? Both, at 8 yrs old, need intervention, but very different kinds of intervention.

You don't want to go, she doesn't want to go, fine.

But you will need to suck it up when she never gets one of the bigger parts when she is in Yr 5 and 6.

Surely most year 4 children are in bed by 8??

Is it not OK for them to have one slightly late night once or twice a year for an occasion like the school play, though?

They obviously can't force you to bring your child, but personally I think it's nice to encourage children to participate in that kind of thing. I know it's a bit annoying and inconvenient but it's not like it's a regular thing; it's a one-off. I think it's nice to encourage children to take part in this sort of thing even if they don't have a main part - some kids are always going to have be in the backing choir rather than centre-stage, and next year she'll probably in the play itself. I think that unless there was a truly desperate reason, I would take her just because otherwise it sends out the message that it's OK to drop out of things at the last minute and let people down, when it's a group activity that's been planned for weeks and in which you have a role (no matter how small), just because you don't much feel like it.

Seems clear to me
She didn't volunteer to do it, doesn't want to do it
Practicalities are a pain
Tell the school she's not going. If they'll kick off just claim a babysitter let you down. Are you even allowed to take the 1 year old?

She's just 8 years old! Bit young to be talking of teamwork/group work!

She's 8 years old. She's tired. She does not want to go. She is usually keen you say. So that should inform you that she REALLY does not want to go for genuine reasons. As a mother its your job to prioritise your child and her feelings over other children/school.

I'd keep her home. She will thank you for it. School will not, but child's well being trumps school play.

I've hung around playgrounds waiting in cold December with younger kids who ideally should have been in bed hours ago waiting bloody ages past pick up time for child having minor part in Christmas play.

I only did that because my children wanted to take part and it wasn't that far to get back.

That's not the case here. I expect if you have a word with the teacher stating your DD apathy and the logistical problems - they'll tell you you aren't the only one.

My Dc current school didn't do an evening performance last year - this year they are doing a very early evening one and keeping hold of the kids to do it. I'm pleases as we live some distance away so saves a lot of travel for us.

All depends.

If she does a late club already (used to late nights when it suits her) - Brownies etc - that does benefit her, I think she should go. She will be supporting the rest of her class.

I would ask another parent, who she is a friend of their child, to collect her with the proviso that she might not be able to go at all. Then if that's the case say one of the younger siblings is playing up and you can't drop her there.

She'll be having late nights over xmas, I take it?

I wouldn't do it in the circumstances you describe, OP although next year when she has more to do would be a different matter.

I can near guarantee she won't be the only one and the school won't kick off. They'll be used to it and will have A Plan in place.

Not wishing to drip feed but what happened last year (our first year at this school) was that a few weeks before we had a slip to say if our children would return/take part. I ticked yes as felt it was important. Made arrangements for the baby and got tickets to go. On the night dd got Very upset had a meltdown and didn't want to go, she was very tired

I think you need to look at why she's having a 'meltdown' over being in her school play and is still desperately reluctant a year later, then.

Most kids are super-excited about being in the school play, staying up late etc. I don't think 'she was very tired' is really the reason she didn't want to go, to be honest.

It sounds like she's really anxious about this for some reason and I think I would be focusing on getting to the bottom of why that is. Did she get shouted at or make a mistake in front of an audience at some point? Has she fallen out with some other kids who will be there? Is she suffering from horrendous stage-fright? Have you talked to her about why she's so reluctant? Just 'not feeling a part of it' and 'being tired' doesn't seem much of a reason for a kid to be having meltdowns over a school play, so I think she's anxious or worried for some other reason.

Yes she does have meltdowns. Tantrums or whatever you want to call them, much less now than she used to but still occasionally. She struggles to control her feelings (at home only funnily enough, model behaviour at school) & gets very tired because she struggles to get to sleep. It is difficult and that's probably for another thread. I've read books and we've done work books together and I'm doing my best. I do stand my ground with her when needed but it's draining and difficult and not very nice for the younger two to witness.

Last year I just looked at this sobbing shattered little girl and didn't feel it right to force her to go back to school at 6pm on a Friday at the end of term, not to mention the practicalities of his to manouvre her there if she didn't cooperate whilst managing 2 other young children. I've learnt to pick my battles.

She does know about commitment and team work in other things - ballet lessons (wanted to quit but stood our ground because of notice period and now she's ok, music lessons, ballet show, church nativity production)

It is also perhaps for another thread the difficulty with getting dh to commit to leave early/get home at a certain time.

She doesn't feel 'in' the play at all. She's performed before and really enjoyed it. I've tried to ask her why she's not keen but not got anywhere.

Do you not having any neighbours or friends' dc going, so that she could tag along with them?

We have a few things like this a year and we just mix and match. My friend with a younger one takes at 5pm and I pick up at 9pm or whatever.

Most kids are super-excited about being in the school play, staying up late etc

This isn't true. Many shy children simply hate being forced to participate in such things. I was one. I can remember how it felt being pushed into doing things I didn't want to do - horrid. I hated being on stage.

Now I'm still shy but I'm perfectly ok, it's just my personality.

I think its a tricky one op.
My dd1 had a play they were doing last week, she didn't have a part, just in the choir. There were 2 performances, afternoon and evening.
I couldn't attend the afternoon one so bought tickets for the evening one.
When we got there it was very noticeable that some children were missing.
Afterwards the head told us that 15 children hadn't turned up, It was a real shame on the ones who were there.
He awarded the children who turned up extra house points.

I understand for some families, evening performances are not ideal.
I would say if you cant attend, then you should let the school know, so they can get someone else to stand in.

Please tell me you don't believe that a an 8 or 9 year old can never have a slightly late bedtime on a Friday night?

Well mine can't actually, as he has asd and can't have his routine disrupted.

And presumably you would have let the school know that she couldn't do an evening performance weeks ago, Mountainhighchair.

She's year 4. It's Friday evening. YANU

YABU should say - very bad for the rest of the pupils

I do take mine back for this type of performance, but if it's all tangled up with other stuff, I'd let it go. Why even ask on here? Just make your decision it's not right for you as a family and that's that.

Don't worry about 8 year old's having tantrums, one of mine had full blown tantrums til she was about 9/10, then they just melted away. I was genuinely worried and so many people on Mn were condemnatory about older children still having paddies/needing a firm hand blah blah, but I think she just didn't have very good powers of expression, stuff used to build up over weeks and out it would explode. For whatever reason, she's been different in the teen years, much more emotional on a daily basis but it's more even and not these huge explosions.

You know your child, you know what suits them, do what you want after compulsory school is over. She sounds like a team player at other times, but just simply doesn't want to do this.

She's year 4 (so 8 or 9?) should be OK as a one off. Your baby is not likely to turn into a pumpkin being out late once as a one off.

I am sure if she was Mary you and your DP could make it work...

So the older child's needs take priority over the younger? Why?

Because this isn't just a matter of the older child's needs, it's a matter of her obligations to the other children in the play and the teachers who have worked to make it happen. And it's not as if the younger children will suffer anyway.

If she volunteered to do it - she should go, you all knew what was being signed up to.

If she didn't volunteer - you can decide now.

It seems she didn't - although I've no idea what "required" would mean in the context of an 8 year old - so don't go!

Are most 8 year olds really in bed at 8pm? Surely that's only the ones who need to be up at 6 for the majority?

If they'll kick off just claim a babysitter let you down.

Lying to get out of something you don't want to do - excellent lesson to teach your child.

Mine certainly weren't in bed by 8 in year 4, especially not at weekends, but they didn't have to get up till 7.30 on school days.

Our school is so sensible, it has an afternoon performance for those who can make that (so light on parents, heavy on children) and an evening performance (heavy on parents, light on children). I've seen both on occasions and it doesn't in any way spoil my enjoyment having fewer children in the choir! I'd rather see lots of happy excited children than a mum having to deal with an 8 year old having a tantrum because she is over-tired with a crying baby to top it off.

MN is full of 'shoulds' and 'oughts', you've let the teacher know you won't be attending which is politer than 90% of the parents, now just stay home if that suits your family.

My older ones were having tantrums and meltdowns at this age when tired.

Meltdowns - I think when they are struggling with sensory overload. I certainly find it harder to cope when I'm tried. Though I suspect anxiety is playing a part with both - as mine could cope with late night performances as they were excited but other things they were worried about did kick start them off.

Doesn't really matter though - it's outside school hours so isn't part of the school day - child doesn't want to take part and it's a pain logistically for the OP. I think it's reasonable for OP to say sorry no can't do.

Are most 8 year olds really in bed at 8pm?

Mine are /were- though that is partly as they get up early and that doesn't shift whatever time bed time is - and believe me I've tried over the years as I'm an owl not a lark. Plus they do seem to need more sleep than others - they some of youngest in their years and school has always exhausted them.