AIBU to think no one has come out of this looking great?

[ilostdoryintheocean]

Really need help. DS is 11, and has been excluded for swearing at a member of staff. I don't condone his actions AT ALL - but I have been concerned about this TA for a while and I feel awful as I feel I should have spoken up for him earlier.

So here is the situation, DS has had a lot of early childhood trauma and he shows many autistic traits but has not been formally diagnosed. He colours in as a way of calming himself down but knows he needs to stop colouring and start work when the teacher has finished talking. Sometimes he refuses. The teacher then sends him outside to calm down (it's pointless confronting him.) The teacher has been really good with him.

The TA hates his colouring and shouts at him to stop. He then shouts back. It then turns into a shouting match. On Friday he told her to fuck off and that her breath stank. she is understandably furious but AIBU to wish she'd just back off him a bit, she really does seem to have it in for him a bit?

They excluded him for that?? Although unacceptable and requires punishment I'm gobsmacked that they've gone straight to exclusion as opposed to detention.

Sounds poorly handled in a number of ways from what you've said

I think if you have explained (as you have done here) to the school, how DS feels and that this is a coping mechanism then YANBU

If you haven't had a meeting with the teacher and together discussed strategies to help DS then YABU, your DS was rude, disruptive & disrespectful. You and the school need to work together.

Get him diagnosed, arrange a meeting with school and begin to work with them to help DS cope & thrive. Your DS needs to respect his teachers, if he is hearing you talk badly of them at home it won't be helping matters.

I find it difficult to believe that the teacher hasn't discussed with the TA how to deal with your son, so YANBU. You need a meeting with the teacher and perhaps also the TA to discuss strategies in future. If they haven't put him formally on SEN Support, perhaps they should do so.

I think the first thing you need to do is find out if he has autism or not. If he does, then you can discuss that with the school and they can take steps to work with him. But they can't treat him as a child with special needs on the grounds of you just saying you think he has some autistic traits.

Re his childhood trauma, that must be hard for him. Could he be referred to a child psychologist who could help and perhaps advise the school on the best way to approach his problems?

The TA does sound a bit crap but is only one part of the equation and hopefully with some help your son will be able to cope better when confronted with people he finds difficult. This TA will not be the only person he meets in life who he finds unpleasant, so just removing them from the equation won't actually help long-term.

YABU. There hasn't been any formal diagnosis?

I feel the teacher is intimidated by the TA. She is in her first year teaching and the TA has been there years and years.

I think you could use this incident as the springboard to help you get a proper diagnosis for your ds. I assume he is 11 and still in primary school? If so, now is the time to push for referrals and assessments in preparation for secondary transition. If you haven't done so already.

Well I think what you need to do is to book him in for an assessment asap and tell school in writing that you're doing this and that when he returns you would appreciate their patience.

I don't think anyone here can answer this as there are always so many facets to any situation. You're also making an assumption that the teacher is intimidated by the TA which sound unlikely as you say the teacher is very good.

It would be helpful to get a clear picture of whether your ds has ASD or not but even if he does, the behaviour policy will still apply. As long as reasonably adjustments are made, the school is quite within their rights to sanction, and frankly it's unacceptable for a member of staff to be told to fuck off and have offensive personal comments made to them- staff have rights too.

You definitely need to discuss this
All with the school and as he's been excluded you will have a reintegration meeting so you have a forum for it soon.

It's very difficult because on the face of it quiet colouring or having a doodle book for while the teacher is speaking sounds ok but I have witnessed situations where it can be a hindrance to other pupils who may have SEND and also we don't know the exact train of events e.g. Perhaps on this occasion your ds was not engaging with the teachers instructions while colouring
We just don't know so it's pointless for Any of us to 'take sides'

reasonable

Where I work lots of kids with no formal diagnosis, but wuth concentration difficulties etc, are allowed twiddly things or to colour in etc. It's a formally arranged thing with sen dept, so you don't get random kids all doing it.
Is it secondary? He needs the, very sensible sounding, time out arrangement etc formalised and all staff need to be aware of it.
I am quite shocked that a ta is shouting...that's really inappropriate and I can't imagine the class teacher appreciates that.
I would be having a ling discussion senco etc because they are not meeting his needs. Does his childhood trauma mean he is a 'looked after child' because a failure to meet a looked after child's needs gets a school in big trouble.
Regarding the exclusion, most schools do have a blanket policy about verbally abusing staff.

When he is colouring, does he do it in such a way that it is not actually colouring in, but scribbling wildly and destructively and going all over the tables etc? That's the only reason I can think of that the TA would shout at him to stop. Then to be told to F off ...well, in anybody's book that is unacceptable. Presumably this is an incident in a long line of them, so exclusion is not necessarily heavy-handed.
The key stage I work in ( younger than your child) has similar problems with a child who does not respond to people being lovely and nice when he is in one of his 'moods'. Only straight talking and 'commands' have any effect, but there comes a time when it is overstepping the mark, and the child gets totally uncooperative and abusive. For the sake of everyone's sanity, exclusion sometimes follows.
We have to let the rest of the children have a break from the constant disruption and the ensuing 'atmosphere', as well as having some sort of repercussion when all else has failed.(That is, all the other strategies and sanctions for such behaviour).

Exclusion for awearing sounds a bit much TBH.

You need to go and have a chat with the teacher and the SENCO of the school and have a chat again about techniques to support him.
YY about also pushing for a diagnosis.

When discussing techniques on how to handle him, talking about how shouting at him is creating the wrong reaction is essential.

Is the TA there to support the class teacher or is she there to support your ds? Does he have anything in place re special support etc?

Oh and maybe re post that on the SN board. You'll find entry of people there with experience of that sort of issue.

Have you talked to the HT?

The upside is that he may end up somewhere else where he is better dealt with.

My ds told a teacher to fuck off too
He has autism and so the punishment was less (inclusion) because they recognised it was part of his lack of controlling his emotional outbursts and there was a build up.

My suggestion would be to use the re integration meeting as a chance to discuss how they can prevent it escalating again. Draw up a clear behaviour plan and agreed practice for when Ds struggles to transition from colouring to working.
Ideas may be a timer as a visual prompt with now and next cards.
Suggest they give him his own time out card so he can request to leave when he's anxious and that it's worked on that he learns to recognise for himself when he's getting stressed and needs to calm. Emotional scaling is a great tool for this but work to be able to scale needs to be done alongside using the system.

The thing is being strength and shouting at a child are two very different thing.

You can talk straight to a child, command a certain behaviour etc.. wo shouting, which is done in anger and said anger comes out in the tone of voice etc... It also means that the person is out of control herself rather than in full control of the situation (like with the commanding tone). Ime, that is also what then leads to the sort of reaction the OP's DC had - shouting and swearing, i.e. Losing control the same way than the TA had.

No, he colours quietly. His teacher confirmed this. The TA is very intimidating.

So what would you like to happen?

You really need to get him assessed. Go to GP and request referral to Paediatrician. Also request counselling through school.

You need to be persistent. The first teacher I talked to about Dd said "We don't believe in that sort of nonsense here." Thankfully he then retired and the new head was great. Dd now diagnosed with Aspergers and getting appropriate support.

"The TA is very intimidating". You definetly need to go and see the head.

Firstly say what you have said here, that you are very cross that Ds swore like he did, but if the TA's behaviour doesn't change it will not help your Ds.

There is no need for a TA to be shouting at anyone.

I'm amazed that some people think that exclusion is too harsh a punishment for swearing directly at a member of staff. I work in a school, and we would PERMANENTLY exclude for this. If a child drops something and says "oh shit", they would be told off. If they DIRECTLY swear at an adult as your son did, they would be out. But then I work in a private school, and we don't have to put up with bratty children.
Be grateful that someone is bothering to discipline your child (who doesn't even have a diagnosis of SEND). If he grows up and gets away with this sort of behaviour, things will get worse. By the time he's a teenager, things may well have escalated, and he could end up on the wrong side of the law. Back the TA up and take his playstation off him for a week. It isn't normal for a young child to be telling adults to f off.

What would you like to happen

For a TA not to get in my child's face and yell at him.

Dory are you aware of your local SENDIAS service? All local authority areas should have one. People there can support you when dealing with the school and assist in getting a diagnosis and EHCP in place. Please google them and ask for advice, it is a free service.

I really hope you are'nt a teacher harsh

The OP clearly states the child has had trauma in his life, have some compassion.

Your vile post has'nt helped.

Harshbuttrue if you are really a teacher, then frankly you should be struck off.