AIBU to think no one has come out of this looking great?

[ilostdoryintheocean]

Really need help. DS is 11, and has been excluded for swearing at a member of staff. I don't condone his actions AT ALL - but I have been concerned about this TA for a while and I feel awful as I feel I should have spoken up for him earlier.

So here is the situation, DS has had a lot of early childhood trauma and he shows many autistic traits but has not been formally diagnosed. He colours in as a way of calming himself down but knows he needs to stop colouring and start work when the teacher has finished talking. Sometimes he refuses. The teacher then sends him outside to calm down (it's pointless confronting him.) The teacher has been really good with him.

The TA hates his colouring and shouts at him to stop. He then shouts back. It then turns into a shouting match. On Friday he told her to fuck off and that her breath stank. she is understandably furious but AIBU to wish she'd just back off him a bit, she really does seem to have it in for him a bit?

Italiangreyhound: Again, it is not established that the TA shouted 'in his face', ie that she was inappropriately close to his face. And just as it is your opinion that people should only raise their voices in extreme situations, it is my opinion that there are some situations in a classroom where it is perfectly reasonable to raise your voice. I don't do it often but I do do it. Without hearing from the TA about why she did it in this case, it is unfair to call her a bully. Her approach may well have been counter productive but that isn't being a bully.

WouldHave: Can be, yes. That is why I have (like many other posters( suggested assessment.

The way I have interpreted this (and I have pieced this together from what the teacher and headteacher told me, and from what DS told me)

The TA was standing directly in front of DS shouting at him and then put her head very close to his.

I don't think the teacher felt she could do anything at that exact moment and then when DS shouted she intervened.

I don't think the headteacher or the teacher felt it would be professional to criticise the TA. I will carefully monitor the situation and hopefully the TA will give DS a wide berth but she does seem to have a bit of an issue with him.

So in conclusion I don't think there's anything to escalate as I don't think the teacher or headteacher did anything wrong. I think the TA was at fault but I don't expect the teacher to disclose this to me.

It's a very specific role, OP, and not especially relevant to this thread, so if it's all the same with you I'd prefer not to give that sort of personal information on someone else's thread. I can PM you if you're desperate to know but it doesn't change what I'm posting here.

I have no idea what I would have done in the specific case of your son's scenario and have never implied I would. I'm not a teacher. But any staff member should follow whistle-blowing procedures if they have concerns about the behaviour of another member of staff.

I think what's more important is what you want to happen and how you want the school to ensure that. Which is why I've suggested speaking to the CoG to resolve this, but you haven't answered that.

"It is not established that the TA shouted in his face"

Apart from the teacher demonstrating she shouted in his face, and DS saying she shouted in his face, that is.

Trifle please read my post property! I did not call her a bully! I said...

"Some school staff TA, or otherwise, can be a bit bullying, just as they bully kids they bully adults. That could potentially be a reason"

"Some school staff TA, or otherwise"... "That could potentially be a reason.

I do not know her and ha e called her nothing.

I am offering potential thoughts. As we all are.

Honestly Surburban what I feel you are trying to do is paint me as a bad parent.

You infer, repeatedly, that my son is not telling the truth: when it is established that he is telling the truth because the teacher confirmed his version of events you shift the focus of your attacks from my son to the teacher and infer she is a bad teacher for "not following whistle blowing policies."

In other words, you are determined to believe the TA didn't shout, was not at fault at all.

That's fine. But (I don't condone that he did) DS doesn't explode for no reason.

Italiangreyhound: I think it was heavily implied, since you have said there is no reason not to believe this is true of her and no reason for any poster to defend her. But excuse me if I misread you.

I think the TA was at fault but I don't expect the teacher to disclose this to me.

You don't need anyone to have told you the TA was at fault.

You just need to describe the behaviour as told to you by the teacher and your child and explain to the CoG that you do not feel this is an appropriate way for staff to interact with your child.

I am well aware of what I "can" do but I do not deem it appropriate at this time.

Of course, OP. I have accepted that that is what you have been told. Bit pointless me saying anything other than okay, which is what I did and you objected to it. But in my opinion, without the TA's side of the story you have incomplete information.

Trifle, there is no issue that assessment would be helpful. However, as many people have pointed out, you can't generally get an assessment and diagnosis for several months after referral.

However, we come back full circle to the basic point that an assessment and diagnosis are not necessary for a school's duty to make reasonable adjustments for disability to kick in. Additionally, as a matter of good professional practice school staff have to deal with each child as an individual, and not operate a blanket policy of "no diagnosis means no concessions to obvious anxiety".

Well, for your part, you've made it clear you don't believe I'm a DSL, but I haven't taken umbrage at that because I know you're wrong.

I think the problem here is how you misinterpret what people post, so for that reason, I'm out.

Shouting at the whole class to be heard seems reasonable (although often some kids will be being responsive and individuals not). But shouting at one child seems counterproductive, almost goading if he has any form for any kind of explosive behaviour when shouted at.

Op you do not need to say but has this type of thing happened before, with this TA or otherwise?

Trifle for the sake of argument even if the shouting was from a distance and not in his face, I still feel it was wrong.

But I see no reason for teacher to lie to the parent and make the 'incident' appear worse than it was. If anything, I would expect a teacher to down play to be 'supportive' of colleague in a 'difficult'situation.

WouldHave: I'm not saying schools can't make adjustments without a diagnosis. But they need some evidence - an assessment, a meeting to agree strategies etc. When that happens and a plan is in place, staff will have a duty to follow it.

Trifle you (and others) have expressed scepticism from the very beginning of this thread. To be very honest, I am bored of it.

Children are sometimes naughty and sometimes lie to get themselves out of trouble for being naughty.

But surely, if you have any sort of role in a school whatsoever, and frankly I don't care if it's a "specialist role" and that you or someone else is "designated lead for safeguarding" (and I fucking hope a child disclosing abuse isn't treated like I have been) or how many years you have been teaching.

A child with early childhood trauma. removed from his birth parents.
A child who colours in as a way of "calming himself down"
A child who explodes with rage
A child who felt scared when his space was invaded.

If you stood over a dog and the dog growled and you got even closer and then got bitten you have to accept that if you behaved differently then being bitten could be avoided. That doesn't mean the dog should be biting just that you should be a bit more self aware and have a bit more common sense.

This is not an "ordinary naughty boy" situation, this was a real explosion of rage. Child shocked and crying after it.

But maybe you're right and actually the TA just politely asked him to stop colouring in, and the teacher is lying and my son is too. Just doesn't seem that plausible, does it?

Triffle It is fine to resend her, of course.

OP, I understand your frustration as I have said several times. You can be bored of it but it doesn't change my opinion. Also out.

I do believe it Surburban I'm just depressed by it, as you've made it clear you don't believe my child's version of events which suggests to me your default setting is "lying kid, truthful adult" and it's because of that attitude my child is how he is now, as if someone had believed him from the start intervention could have happened earlier and things changed. But I digress.

Your opinion - that the teacher is lying, that my child is lying, that the TA was not shouting and was not in his face.

Sure you are entitled to it, it is just a bit bizarre.

Yes I agree, I am very grateful for her posts and for others' posts.

defend her