To speak to this boy's mum?

[BecauseOfYou]

My DD (age 4) ) gets a school bus to and from school everyday. It's roughly a 45 min journey each way, and up to now has been enjoying it, as she's made a friend who she sits with everyday. I let her take in a little notepad and a couple of pencils for her and her friend to draw, as I'd imagine it must get quite boring.

One other boy gets on at her stop, he is 8 - my DD has come to know him and knows his name etc. Today she got off the bus upset, saying that this boy and two others had taken her notebook and ripped it up. She'd told the bus driver and the boys denied it, saying it was my DD (I know 100% that she wouldn't make this up), and then continued to destroy her stuff while the bus driver was driving. They were also telling everyone that my DD had done a poo on the bus, and to top it off, told her santa isn't real.

I do see his mum everyday but she seems quite unapproachable and has never spoken to me. I'm gutted that her stuff has been ruined, and I won't be sending in another notepad which is a shame as my DD and her friend enjoy drawing etc on the bus as it fills the time. Also sad that my four year old is already questioning santa.

What do I do? Do I raise it with the boys mum?

Your dd could be upset because she knew she was being silly and you wouldn't be happy with her behaviour.

Yeah you're right it was probably all my DD's fault and she destroyed her own notebook, and told everyone herself that she had done a poo on the seat, and told herself about santa not being real

Blaming the boy is not going to help

I have an 8 year old ds. If I found out he had taken a notebook off a four year old (much less torn it up/messed with her other things) I would be bloody furious. He wouldn't see the light of day (other than school) for a month.

It's no wonder that some kids are spiteful little shits (yes, 8 though he may be - if he's NT there is NO excuse) with 'parenting' like that.

I think the OP would have sussed out her dd if she had a habit of making up mean shit like that to get an older boy in trouble. That's pretty tricky artful lies for a little one. Much more likely that the older child has been a nasty little sod.
The school should deal with this. It is clearly not reasonable to expect a driver to drive a bus AND deal with behaviour issues at the same time.

So much hand wringing on this regarding school buses.
Just from the other side i work in transport. The majority being Private hire school buses for both Private and County schools (Roughly around 45 transports a day, from 16 to 70 seats per run going from Prep School children, Primary , Secondary, and colleges).
It is perfectly normal to not have an adult chaperone on a coach, in fact we have never had an issue with this or a school/LEA asking for this to be done.
All drivers are enhanced DBS Checked for each county they work in as well as completing safe guarding/risk assessments.
Most of the schools we work in have a system where older pupils work as bus prefects.
The driver has a list of stops(not normal public bus stops) a list of which children load on at which stop. On the return journey children under a certain age have to be met by an approved adult at the stop. If there is no one there then they continue on the route and arrangements are made for the parent to either catch up at the next stop along the route or the child is kept on at the end of the route, the school is informed and they are returned to the school.
All vehicles have to have a 3 point seat belt - In Fact we have approx 3 vehicles per week pulled into workshop for repairs to this alone. If we are spot checked and a child is in a seat with a faulty belt, even if it is slightly worn then we can have our operating licence revoked and the fleet grounded.
Drivers are professional drivers that are put through health checks and on going training. All children are required by law to be in a seat and belted in before the vehicle moves. A driver completes these checks (on alot of new vehicles seats can be set to be alarmed if the seatbelt is removed while the vehicle is moving as it recognises that it is occupied due to the weight) There is internal CCTV on most modern mini buses/coaches.
Instances on school buses are very rare. Any child standing up or causing a distraction then the driver would pull over.

If i was in your position then i woulds speak to the school in the first instance then if still concerned your local authority who will be able to tell you the service provider for your school. It could be that they can work out a way of keeping them apart by allocating seat numbers, bus monitors, and checking cctv recording. I am sure the coach operator will be happy to work alongside to help resolve any ongoing issues. But first and foremost the school needs to be aware as bullying should not be tolerated.

What i'm trying to say the school bus is not the issue - Believe me when i tell you that the amount of paperwork / safeguarding / training / operational policy's / risk assessment that goes on is huge.

Misery
Do you really think that the Ed Dept are going to pay for a chaperone over a ripped notebook? (Not minimalising the ops daughters experience at all)

The school will deal with the bullying. The kids are expected to act as they would in school while they are on the bus and the appropriate consequences apply.

If its an area like mine the Ed Dept will not give a hoot as they dont have the money to put chaperones on about 2 dozen buses twice a day in the region!

And as for the suggestion that the ed dpt will change the bus routes? You have no idea how many out of the way places there are in rural areas, the buses each go a specific route as they are picking up at farms, road ends, villages etc they cant just change route. They have to pick up all the kids in the most sensible/most economical routes, one bus cant go 2 miles out if its way just to pick up one child that could get another bus which is already passing her house, lane, farm entrance! There would be chaos and kids would end up being missed or late for school.

Some bonkers replies to OP's query! We're in rural Wales and as many others have said travelling on the school bus from age 4 is completely normal. Mine have been doing it since then - now at high school. There has been the odd issue, but we've taken it up with the school and it's always been dealt with well. The threat of not being able to travel on the bus generally works as it puts the parents of the trouble maker in a spin!

Bit of an update if anyone is interested.

Collecting DD off the bus, when the bus pulled in the driver was up and out his seat - at first I thought it was to talk to me. Noticed lots of paper strewn across the bus. But bus driver got off and said to the boys mum that he wanted to speak to her, and basically told her that he is destructive, flinging things about and calling him names everyday, all the while the wee boy is screaming the bus driver is a fat liar. He told the mum he was going to have to report him to the school if he did it one more time...and I didn't hear the rest as my earwigging was becoming obvious.

DD has taken home a picture she made today and when I saw it I recognised it as the paper strewn all over the bus, so that's another primary ones work destroyed (DD sat away from him today she tells me).

Still going to speak to the school.

The bus driver will report him if he does it one more time?! Think the school needs to know each and every incident the bus driver sees. Then the school can say 'you have a warning: get out of your seat / destroy other people's things / shout or bully anyone you will be banned from the bus until further notice.' The child does it again, they get banned for a term.

Also, they do need some sort of supervision, like the prefects. But what can they do when a child is out of seat, throwing things around? They would then have to get out of their seat and out themselves in danger.

The school needs to know and I'd be telling them about the second incident too because they'll want to know. Chances are this child has issues in school aswell, so they need to let other children know it is not acceptable to do this.

Also, I would ask the school to ask the child to replace her notebook and make a formal apology to her.

Speak to the school. The boy should be reported straight away, with a consequence of unless he apologies he will be banned from the bus. It's such a shame for your dd who is only 4.
TBH there is loads of bullying & bad behaviour on my ds school bus, but that's a high school.

Speak to the school , if the bus driver does and you do , then hopefully the situation will be resolved . Shocked that an 8yr old would call an adult a fat liar when they are standing there in front of them

My daughter has been getting the bus to school since age 4. We live in a town on Yorkshire and it is a godsend. Funded and run by parents with a teaching assistant checking everyone is on at the end of the day. It is the only way I can get her there. Fantastic driver who instantly reports any problems. Youngest sit at the front and oldest at the back.

Frumpet I was shocked too! I've only ever saw this boy getting on and off the bus and up until yesterday would have never have guessed he behaved like this.

Willow2016

If there is a fatality, then YES, the LA will have to look again at how children are transported to school. It just takes a few seconds for the driver to take their eye off the road...then the worst case scenario happens.

How much is a child's life worth?

Look at school trips for example, do the children get plonked on buses and the staff travel separately? Nope, because the school are responsible for the children. The LA are responsible for providing a safe way for your child to get to school...

Also look at lollipop people, surely the child can just cross at a level crossing? Are they a waste of money? If the local authority can afford them, then they can afford an escort.

As mentioned earlier, I have children with additional needs. There was not an appropriate school to meet my child's need in county, so the LA picked an out of county provision and paid £100 per taxi journey. Yes, £200 per day! For one child! Surely they can pay the minimum wage for one escort for X amount of children?

glad it sounds like its being resolved, and I am sorry your little one was put through it. Its good the driver spoke to the mum directly as she is now aware and will be worried her son may end up banned from the bus if he continues to misbehave. I am sure she will do what she can to prevent any further bad behaviour. If I was the driver and the lad called me a Big Fat Liar I would not hesitate in reporting the lad as he has no respect and the school should deal with this. It is likely the lad is known in the school already as I doubt the bad behaviour is confined to the bus journey. x

Absolutely zero chance I would send my 4 year old on a buss with no chaperone!

Well then lucky for you you have the choice then , Happy . Some people don't .

Absolutely zero chance I would send my 4 year old on a buss with no chaperone! shock

Yeah, I'ld love to be able to quit work and Home Educate too instead of going to work, unfortunately for the local families who got none of their school places and were allocated somewhere with no direct public transport links to.. a lot of them still need both parents to work so… minibus it is!

I guess they could always default on their mortgage in the hope they could get re-homed in the abundant public housing stock we have so that they could stay home and not work in order to home educate for the 2/3 years it takes to get a nearer waiting list place…. but maybe they just don't love their kids enough to do that

Yes happy, we've already clarified that I must not love my child as much as some of you love yours.

Heard back from school today, they are investigating.

I also send my dd on a bus and she's 4. She's fine. In fact she loves it as has met lots of older children and enjoys telling me tales of stories she hears. I think it's nice to be independent and she's really grown up from the experience.
But def speak to school re the older child not being kind. It's not right!

Both my children went on the bus from five onwards. It's not uncommon in rural areas. If we had problems our school sorted it out.

And no chaperones. That would never be affordable!

Because- great to hear the school is getting involved. Hope your dd is doing ok.