To speak to this boy's mum?

[BecauseOfYou]

My DD (age 4) ) gets a school bus to and from school everyday. It's roughly a 45 min journey each way, and up to now has been enjoying it, as she's made a friend who she sits with everyday. I let her take in a little notepad and a couple of pencils for her and her friend to draw, as I'd imagine it must get quite boring.

One other boy gets on at her stop, he is 8 - my DD has come to know him and knows his name etc. Today she got off the bus upset, saying that this boy and two others had taken her notebook and ripped it up. She'd told the bus driver and the boys denied it, saying it was my DD (I know 100% that she wouldn't make this up), and then continued to destroy her stuff while the bus driver was driving. They were also telling everyone that my DD had done a poo on the bus, and to top it off, told her santa isn't real.

I do see his mum everyday but she seems quite unapproachable and has never spoken to me. I'm gutted that her stuff has been ruined, and I won't be sending in another notepad which is a shame as my DD and her friend enjoy drawing etc on the bus as it fills the time. Also sad that my four year old is already questioning santa.

What do I do? Do I raise it with the boys mum?

We lived in Scotland and years before they had closed the village school so all the village children had to go on the bus. I drove my four year old for the first day intending to do so for the first few weeks but he was having none of it and wanted to go on the bus with his friend. Several stops, no chaperone. It was the norm and our village school now has a mini bus or two for the rural catchment kids.
How is a chaperone going to get home? The buses usually do another run somewhere else. In our village there isn't another bus except one(minibus) in and out to the city on a Friday. Education budget is already tight I can't see them doing this.
Lots of four year olds have to travel on the bus. It is life.

OP
As others have said you need to speak to the school and they will do it. They will take a dim view of him upsetting a newbie and they might well be aware of him from a behaviour point of view re school.
As for Santa just tell her that if you don't believe then Santa doesn't visit. I agree with poster that said because he has been naughty maybe Santa didn't leave him a present. She is likely to accept this as he has been mean to her. A boy in school (8) did this the other day some of the kids looked devastated until I said" If you don't believe then Santa Claus won't bring you anything. My daughter still hangs her stocking up every year." Then one of them pipped up, "How old is your daughter Mrs D?"
" 25 " I replied.
They seemed quite satisfied with that, although a few giggled.
Hopefully it will work for you.

No chaperones on school buses here either and children from 4 getting them daily. Rural school. Any bad behaviour is reported to the head who sorts it. Children have been banned from school transport for bad behaviour.

I think if the school has sent out several communications already about school bus behaviour this year, then it indicates there is a problem on the school buses in general. A repeated communication from a school tends to be reactionary.

Don't go to the mother direct, speak to th school. On the wider issue if the school is facing issues on the school buses of poor behaviour then they need to either look at a chaperone system, or making an example of poor behavers, or something to sort it out, repeated communications are pointless.

And for the poster who said this is normal behaviour for an eight year old, no it's not normal for an eight year old to bully a four year old. Far from it. It's not eight year olds being eight year olds, in fact I've known no kid at eight who felt bulling four year olds was the way to go.

'School must have 25 coaches and mini busses'
I hardly think it's a tiny school I'd speak re chaperones.

There's no point berating the poor OP for putting her child on a school bus, when no-one has any idea of her circumstances, beyond the fact that she lives 7 miles from the school.

I can't imagine she woke up one morning thinking 'Yippee! I get to offload my inconvenient 4 year-old on someone for an extra hour and a half each day.'

Clearly there are issues which need addressing, but school transport is provided because people need to use it. Not everyone lives close to a school/has a suitable walking route/drives/has no disabilities or health conditions.

Most people are criticising the inadequate provision, but there have been a couple of posts directly attacking the OP for 'choosing' to use this bus. Being able to walk/drive to school is actually a fairly privileged position to be in, and not the case for a large number of families, particularly in rural areas. We have two school minibuses that go through our village in the morning - one for a local state secondary and one for a private school.

This is an accident waiting to happen. The driver is there to drive. There should be an escort to monitor the children and ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen?

I have two children with additional needs. They have had taxis provided in the past with an escort.

45 minutes is a long journey to go unsupervised.

Personally, I would contact the the school, also the LA and the bus company. Back all this up in writing. Request a written explanation as to why there is NO escort in place. I would also go to your GP and explain that you feel overwhelmed with the situation. Hopefully, the GP will put some extra pressure on the LA?

Don't approach the other child's mother. The the other agencies or school do that.

Buses for children who do not have sn, frequently do not have escorts. Children who choose to behave badly will have their transport withdrawn. When risk assessments are done it will be concerned with whether a child can behave in a safe way on the bus which generally nt school aged children will be able to do. Or if child has medical needs that require an escort.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Spoke with DD this morning about it, she said it started with the boys flinging everyone's bags about. Bus driver then stopped the bus and had a word. After that the boys reached over and got her notebook (which I look at this morning and it is completely destroyed) and ripped all the pages out. The boy was also quite specific about santa, telling her (and other little ones on the bus I assume) that it's mum and dad that get presents, and all the santas she sees are just dressed up.

Quite surprised at the comment that he is just being an 8 year old. If my DD behaved like that at any age, I wouldn't be blaming it on the fact she didn't have supervision.

Is she going to sit behind the driver with her friend?

I've had a text from DS friend on the bus this morning, one of the high school girls punched DS and he was crying :(

So I'll be ringing the head this morning.

If my 8 year did all of that on the bus I'd be fuming, it's not just a boys thing, it's a crappy shitty thing to do to a 4 year old girl minding her own business on the bus. That boy is nothing but a bully. It's not the fact it's an unsupervised bus, it's the badly brought up kids on the bus that's the problem!

BastardGoDarkly, I would be phoning the police as that is an assault! Not acceptable. The school normally deal with these things in house, however, you are well within your rights to contact the police on 101 and report the crime. That way the school with have to act.

My DS and friend spoke to high school teacher when high school kids got dropped (bus then continues on to primary, where DS (9) and also my DD (5) go, they phoned the primary head, just before i did, head (who is new this year) agrees it's a problem, apparently there's far more incidents than I realised, as my DC aren't involved usually, I wouldn't have been told.

She's going to ring the council, and suggested I do too, so I just have, they seem to be taking it seriously, and will get back to me after talking to school and transport team.

So, after initially saying.... it's fine, they're fine, I actually don't think it is fine, these country roads are trecherous, and the poor driver needs all his concentration to get round them safely.

I won't be letting this drop.

Sorry, I forgot to answer about where she sits - she already sits on the second seat behind the driver, with the little boy in front. I now vaguely remember her telling me she was told that front seat was the 8yo boy seat, so I wonder if he's already sitting at the front for a reason. The problem is that it's a pretty big coach, so the seats are higher and a little bit away from the driver.

Right, yes, he's probably there for a reason. Have you rang the school?

I agree, raise it with school.
FWIW I got an unchaperoned school bus at the same age, and there's nowt wrong with me.
We had a great time. Remember the 'Best bogey' competition fondly.

It is NOT an 8YO thing! My 8YO doesn't behave like that and neither do her classmates. They can be a bit mean to each other with regards to people being "in" then "out" in friendship groups, that's normal: "I'm not sitting with you today because I'm not your friend this week, I'm Xs friend now" and sometimes they call each other "Babyish".. but they do not behave that badly as standard

Illogical of the bus driver to gave stopped the bus due to the behaviour of these boys and then to have assumed that your daughter had destroyed her own book.

They should either be suspended from the bus or should have to sit behind the driver.

Speak to school and the driver.

It's not an 8 year old thing. It's unsupervised brat sort of thing. The school and or LEA needs to deal with this. They have a duty of care to all the children. They are failing.

Speak to the school and also the driver. Don't approach the mum if she doesnt seem very friendly to start with.

I disagree with pp's saying "oh, he is just being 8". No, he is being a little git. It is entirely likely that this is just a phase he is going through and he will grow up to be a delightful person but, just for now, this behaviour is wrong. I think there should be a warning that if this continues, he will be banned from the bus either for, say a month, then half a term then a total ban.

I also think people are overreacting a bit with the 'omg, what do you mean there's no chaperone?" bit. I caught the school bus every morning from the age of 6 (over an hour each way) and was just fine. The 6th formers on the bus pulled anyone into line who was acting up. OP are there any responsible seeming teens on the bus who could keep an eye?

That's awful what's happened to your son Bastard. I can't stand bullying, but picking on someone younger than them is even worse.

Email has been sent to HT requesting a meeting.

Anotherday, I don't think the bus driver did believe that it was my DD and her friend, just my DD telling me what had been said, and she was concerned that the driver might believe what the boys said - common sense tells us he wouldn't have done.

as others have said take up with the school and ask them if they are speaking to boys parents.

all of it is awful and its particularity spiteful to tell small dc about FC.

Agree tell her he is so naughty FC wont be coming to him and thats why he thinks not real.

The problem is that if there is no-one supervising the kids. And I would hope the driver would be concentrating on driving so basically no-one is supervising then it is your dd's word against this other boys unless other children are spoken to (who may or may not be reliable depending on who they are friends with). The other boys mother may be just as sure as you that her child wouldn't lie about the incident. A lot of parents believe their children behave like little angels and don't lie. I think you are naive op to be 100% that your dd and her friend haven't been messing around and destroyed the notebook. Even well behaved 4 yr olds can be capable of mischief on a boring 45 min bus journey.

Maybe I am naive but I know my daughter. I know how upset she was, and I know when she is not telling the truth.

Maybe the boys parents think the same? The fact is 2 children have given different accounts and no adult has witnessed what has happened. I would imagine if the boy had been destroying a notebook your dd and her friend wouldn't have sat quietly and the driver would have been aware sitting so close?