To want one bloody day with my family

[Chamonix1]

Christmas Day we are spending alone (me, dh and dd) because in laws chose to have friends over for Xmas so won't come to ours, Boxing Day spent at in laws, and the day after Boxing Day was meant to be the day we spend with my side of the family.
We have a big family, and traditionally get together all the Aunties, cousins and their children either in someone's house or a local hall. This year we are having it in a local hall to us.
We have had a very very strained and rocky relationship with in laws, mil is toxic and fil just goes with it for an easy life.
Anyway, mil asked to take dd overnight on Boxing Day, we declined and said we wanted to take dd home, plus we had lots of food to sort out for my family get together.
Mil simply asks why she can't come.
Sigh.
Told her she could but she will probably be the only person other than fil there that aren't from my side of the family.
She knows I wouldn't want her there and doesn't care. We are spending all day Boxing Day at their house, regardless of being told we are dirty and therefore unwelcome in the past and to be honest I just wanted 1 bloody day with people I love without watching my mil "socialise" with those worthy of her time i.e.: one particular set of Aunty and uncle she's been obsessed with being close with from the word go purely because her son spends time with them out of choice.
It sounds petty, now I've written it all down but I feel for someone who describes herself as "delicate" straight up inviting yourself along to a family gathering when you're seeing your son and his family the day before anyway is just rude, especially considering the poor relationship she has with her son.
I now don't want to go and am feeling like I will never enjoy a get together of any sort again as she refuses to be left out.
Tell me to get a grip

MIL brontosaurus is the best typo i've ever seen

Chamonix1

"This issue I have is my mum is a people pleaser and I had told me she wouldn't want her there but I shouldn't offend them." You are a person, you are the person your mum should want to please most!

BE CLEAR, for too long everyone has been tiptoeing around MIL and it has caused SHIT.

The shit stops here!

"Mum, I know you hate a scene and you don't want to offend, but do not invite MIL. I am likely to cause a scene if she is there! Please help me to avoid this by not inviting her or giving away any info about the event. We are seeing MIL on Boxing day and I do not want her there on MY family day. If you cannot talk to her without inviting her please do not take a call for her, just avoid her. I need you to do this for me mum, it's really hard but I am trying to stand up to her, at last, and I need your help.

"And my Aunty thinks I'm being unfair and that it's only extra two people."

then you do need to be clear with Auntie as well, I love my MIL/like her whatever you can reasionably say BUT I want to just see my family, it may be only two people but it is two people I do not want to be invited to OUR family day, please support me in this.

I can see why you have got in this pickle, you are a whole family of people who take the path of least resistance!

"My aunt herself is pushed out by her own dil and it's clouds her better judgement on my mil brontosaurus around my own family.
Longstanding issue. Don't have my family's support with this one."

You could spend some time chatting to them about the issues, if you have time, or you could just be clear. We are spending a whole day with them and I don't want them there at the family event PLEASE DO NOT EMBARRASS me by inviting them! I will only have to go and uninvite them a second time!

OK, worst case scenario. Your MIL rings you up and says, "I've got an invite from Aunty!"

What will you say? be prepared....

Giselaw
I don't mean to involve my family.
I don't ask them to call mil up and tell her she's not welcome my mil seeks my family out to get invites/ invite them over.
She did this the summer just gone, we held a BBQ, she chose to hold one on the same day and text my mum 3 times asking for my Aunties number to invite her to her BBQ.
I honestly don't try and involve my family, but mil pushes her way into it

"to me and dh they are manipulative and sway between reasonable to totally bonkers so it's a tough one."

How long before they start that with your daughter??

So they think they are being pushed out because you don't want them at everything that you go to??

That's some skewed take on normal life!

Italian
I know it'll end in carnage if o talk to my Aunty, mum will just ignore mils calls (not hard she leaves her phone at mine for days on end!) but Aunty won't be seen as rude. She's rather stubborn on this one and herself tolerates someone in her own life who is clearly a toxic nasty cow. (Her own sil)
I'm going to hope she doesn't call them as itd look desperate and put her as a manipulative person because if I say to Aunty I've asked her not to come, I'm seeing her the day before and I would like to be able to enjoy seeing my family with out her presence she will tell me that's fine but if she asks she won't be rude as that's my choice not to invite her not hers
Just got to hope, if she ends up going now because my Aunty says she can I'll telll my Aunty it's her choice to invite her and my choice to decide I don't want to be around my mil if she's going to be manipulative and won't be going.
Mil would love that, she gets invited and I don't go.

Diddl
I know, but I look to the outside world like such a mean horrible person if I shut them out, because they're good with dd but bad for us. I worry all the time they'll manipulate her when she's older, but is it my place to assume they will and shut them out?

"Mil would love that, she gets invited and I don't go."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Ok, don;t talk to aunty but if you r MIL rings with the cheery news, "Good news, i've had an invite from Aunty." What are you going to say to her?

But to tell your MIL that your family talked it through and decided she (along with any other extended family and friends?!) aren't welcome -- IS dragging your family into it and making it appear they don't welcome her.

Also, your MIL wants to invite your family to her events? That cow, trying to reach out to your family

And I'm sorry, but you are being manipulative by suggesting it's you or your MIL to your Aunt.

The more you write, the more I wonder what the others' viewpoint would be on this.

I've said "we've decided" not told her my Aunty and other family members have spoke about whether my mil is welcome.
No, of my Aunty actually wants my mil there she would've invited her, she has her number.
If I wanted my mil there I would've, mil knows I would rather just see her Boxing Day.
Don't know why you think I'm manipulative for not wanted to see someone two days In a row, is that not allowed?

Chamonix, again, if you start behaving differently to him he may well realise he can't just 'get his way' all the time.

Italian, yes, I get that. But this man is disregarding the OP's wishes, bullying and harassing her, and using emotional blackmail ie his granddaughter to get what he wants.

Why should he get his way all the time? Why doesn't what the OP wants count?

I don't know any grown-ups who would think it OK to turn up unannounced and hang round, knocking and peering in windows, then try to guilt-trip me to let them in.

Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe I make it clear I won't take any bullshit. Probably a bit of both. I think the OP needs to woman up a bit, that's all.

If your MIL phones your Aunty & is told yes then that's entirely out of your hands.

Do they know already that you would rather her not be there?

If they are such people pleasers that they'll say yes to someone who is rude enough to invire them, then that's their lookout.

Just keep schtum about everything in future!

I'd just be wary of what is said & done in front of your daughter.

Be prepared to step in & override MIL/tell your daughter that Granny is being daft.

Do modify your behaviour because of what others might think.

Sorry, that last do should be a don't!

Should also say rude enough to invite themselves.

Really need an edit button today!!

Chamonix re "I know, but I look to the outside world like such a mean horrible person if I shut them out, because they're good with dd but bad for us."

PLEASE stop worrying about what the outside world thinks of you. It is a mistake to twist your life into an uncomfortable shape to please everyone. In the end you will have no real sense of what you even want.

"they're good with dd but bad for us." That REALLY means "they' LOOK good with dd but ARE ACTUALLY bad for ALL OF us."

Anything that makes your mum dread something happening, that makes your mum unable to put up proper boundaries around herself and around you, that makes your mum unhappy and causes tension between your mum and dad, is bad for you (the you here is your dd of course).

Re "I worry all the time they'll manipulate her when she's older, but is it my place to assume they will and shut them out?"

YES, fucking yes. They are doing it to you, they have done it to their son, so why would they not do it to her?

I am not a counsellor, trained or others. But I ahve had counselling a lot, for a lot of isses (anxiety, fertility issues, eating disorder) so I am not an expert but if in doubt speak to a consellor and get some advice.

So as a non-counsellor, who you are totally free to ignore, I think, you and dh need a heart to heart, and to decide YOUR OWN boundaries as a coupe in relation to your in laws and your dd and your wider family. Then you need to put your dd somewhere safe for an hour ot two (your mums?) and meet your in laws face to face at their home or on neutral territory. I think you need to say to his parents that this Christmas thing has brought up a lot of issues about boundaries.

I have no idea how old your in laws are or how savvy they are with modern ideas, and the idea of boundaries in families may go over their heads.

So I would probably say things like...

We (as a family, dh and you) do not feel respected by you, (in laws)
When we make choices and decisions we feel these are walked over, or we are challenged to change the plans we made.
When we do not change plans to accommodate what other people want, we feel that there are tears and stress and we are made to feel like the baddies.
All this is proving to be very stressful for us and is affecting our daughter.
We need you to listen to things we say about what we will do, when we are free to see you, when dd is free to see you etc etc
We are happy to discuss things but when we feel you are not listening to us or being respectful of our wishes we will simply have to stop talking about it and continue with our plans.

If your mum phones up full of glee at getting an invite, please be honest and say you do not want your in laws at the family party, you have tried to make this clear.

Giselaw I am not sure how you are reading that into this?

"your MIL wants to invite your family to her events? That cow, trying to reach out to your family" the OP has made it clear her MIL will latch onto certain family members and talk down about her DIL (the OP) that kind of 'reaching out' we can all do without, surely?

Re "And I'm sorry, but you are being manipulative by suggesting it's you or your MIL to your Aunt." NO, the OP is being honest, her MIL is attempting to ruin her one family event this Christmas and her aunty has such poor boundaries herself the OP knows she will not support the OP.

Re "The more you write, the more I wonder what the others' viewpoint would be on this." The other viewpoint would be that each one was totally in the right, surely. But with mumsnet we get only the OP's view. On very few threads does any person from real life pop on and clarify!!

SapphireStrange

"But this man is disregarding the OP's wishes, bullying and harassing her, and using emotional blackmail ie his granddaughter to get what he wants.

Why should he get his way all the time? Why doesn't what the OP wants count?"

I 100% agree with you, I was just saying I can understand it is hard, and the OP needs building up. She is in an abusive relationship with her in laws and like most who are down trodden she does not realise she has any power to change itm but she and her DH do have power. They are just not using it.

"I don't know any grown-ups who would think it OK to turn up unannounced and hang round, knocking and peering in windows, then try to guilt-trip me to let them in."

Me neither, which is why this is so sad,

"I think the OP needs to woman up a bit, that's all." I agree and the way to do that is to get some help to set boundaries and make them stick but we are not all subject to the same pressures, I am a people pleaser learning to be assertive, it takes time. And my inlaws are totally amazing, my dh is kind and my work place is lovely, so i am so lucky, I've never has my boundaries tested, never been put under any real pressure by them or my work etc so boundaries are not my issue.

Looks like OP has a tripple whammy, in laws manipulative, dh unable to resist them, family unable to support OP. It's not easy.

Italian, I don't think we're disagreeing –and I do know how hard all this stuff is. I have been subject to emotional manipulation before, of course I have; I just feel I've reached a point where I can recognise and deal with it. And it's frustrating to hear from someone who isn't (for the very good reasons you list) dealing with it.

I think we're both trying to help. I'm just being more bolshy about it than you.

if my DHs sister brought her inlaws to DHs family events I would think they were all batshit TBH and I actually know and like her inlaws!

The only time I expect to see "opposite family" is if the event is done by that person so if I did a family party for DD for example I would have DHs family and mine.

Op you are in a shit position. I understand not wanting to be the bad guy. I let people walk all over me to not be the bad guy. All it did was make me miserable and depressed.
I finally stood up for myself and lost those people. I still feel guilt at times but I no longer feel crushed and abused. It was worth it.
Don't answer the phone (hell change your number if you need to). Don't answer the door and if they force themselves in to your family gatherings stop attending. Make time for your family at other times. Once your in-laws know you are no longer willing to play they will probably back off. Also stop letting them know what you are up to. If they don't know about meetings they can't force their way in.
Also think again about christmas and if you want to spend time with people that bully you. It's ok to not want to see them. If your husband wants to see them he can go to them alone.

Sapphire agreed!

If MIL says that she is coming to your family event at your auntie's, you could tell her that in that case it'll save you a trip to visit her on Boxing Day .

Now worried I've done the wrong thing.
Oh god.
I hate this. Ah work all worried I've been a shit person.
Fuck my life

You haven't done the wrong thing Chamonix. Difficultstart to a long campaign to build up your boundaries.

If you get the chance to talk to your family, point out you are trying to put a stop to their manipulative behaviour as it hurts dd, that's why you value their support.

Chamonix
"Now worried I've done the wrong thing." You have not, hope that helps.
"Oh god." You can always pray
"I hate this." You mean you hate having maipulative parents in law!

" I've been a shit person." you are not.

"Fuck my life" PLEASE get a grip of yourself and calm down. You do not need to go through this, please search for some assertiveness information on line and talk to your dh

YOU HAVE expressed the wish that our MIL does not come to a party she is not invited to, which is for your immediate family.

The fact that this simple action has caused you to hate your life and show so much angst is proof that your in laws are fucking up your life big time. PLEASE get some help with this. Honestly, you cannot continue to live your life under this tyranny.

I agree with Inertia. They need to realise that 'the worm has turned' and there will be consequences for their bullying and manipulation.
Please think about what you would say to your dd if she was being bullied in school. Would you tell her to appease the bully by anyway necessary even if it impacted negatively on them. Or would you encourage her to stand up for herself and support her through that tough time.