Conflicted: potentially tiger mum

[Hereforthebeer]

I'm on AIBU to get some home truths

My DCs are primary. They are both really capable and doing well. My initial view of primary school as an outsider was that it was all about being happy and secure.
I don't always make them do homework, I mainly do the reading required but if we have activities, they miss it. I sometimes miss spelling tests and generally am aware of whats required but also want them to love learning and so am sensitive of when I think they need a break/dvd night. So basically i encourage learning, within reason.
Recently, i've been thinking perhaps this is wrong. They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.
WWYD/WDYD?

Why do you think you have to be more 'tiger'? Do you feel that you are not parenting adequately?

Care to elaborate why Kitten.

Autumn you put all homework and all research under one umbrella. Disregarding it all.

So homework is homework regardless of age in reply.

Just to point out kids don't become diligent 14 year olds putting maximum effort into exams over night. It takes years. Teaching them in primary to disregard homework, to disregard instructions from their teacher is indeed a making a rod for your own back.

The transition to secondary is hard enough as it is. I'd hate to think how hard it must be to have to re teach values,show kids how to timetable homework into their busy week,train good home study habits,learn tables,learn speedy long multiplication,Spag etc.

They are tested on spellings in their Spag tests,a poor spelling result brings the whole grade down. They need to produce work with good quality Spag in secondary. Knuckling down in year 6 is far too late.

Greenginger you've just quoted two newspaper articles based on poorly written press releases of studies which don't confirm your assertions.

It might feel like homework at primary level will make all the difference but there's no evidence to show it does.

Kittenmummy1

I'm with you on this one. I fail to see how being able to do 12x12 multiplication in under 2 minutes by the time you've left primary school
is of any use whatsoever. And that's only one example.
I'm not impressed with the homework that is set by the school
my DC go to. Every child is different and learns in different ways. What might be achievement and success for one child is not for another.

GreenGinger1 - it's clear that this is an issue that matters to you and you parent in the way that you believe in, and the values that you espouse. I don't happen to share those same values. And I'm okay with that.

But that is no reason to disregard it. Where is the evidence saying you shouldn't do homework and it is pointless doing it. All of it regardless of quality or content?

Dead the value is in the fact that when sitting Sats,GCSEs,working in class kids will be expected to solve problems quickly under a time restrain. Those kids sitting there trying to count in 8s on their figures will be hugely disadvantaged.

As I said, you have your opinion Green and I have mine.

Green - this conversation is about primary - has been about primary all the way through - you are making conflations and huge assumptions. I really hope you don't teach science. It's very stupid and unlogical to think that children cannot aquire a new habits or establish new behaviours at 11/12 - quite frightening to think you teach and assume all behaviours are fixed by this age. It's not that difficult to introduce a homework habit at any age - kids accept high school and it's rules are very different from primary - it's a different bus, different uniform, you get homework, you do different subjects in different rooms with lots of different teacheR's.

Not being proficient at speedy problem solving in maths doesn't automatically equate to a child being disadvantaged IMO.

And depends what you mean when you say 'disadvantaged'.

Sorry those posts were aimed for Green

Primary schools feed secondary. KS1 feeds KS2. Homework in each varies hugely. All has it's place. Kids aren't robots. Expecting kids to go from zero homework to homework every night without putting serious stress on to a child is ridiculous. If you have told your child to disregard homework and their teacher,that their is zero value in all of it sorry but it is mighty hard to change that stance come year 7. Kids have enough to cope with without the realisation that parents now have a completely different viewpoint and expectations.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/primaryeducation/8886480/Times-tables-key-to-good-maths-inspectors-say.html

There

If you sign up to send your kids to school you ought to uphold the agreement you made with them. Tbh how it takes schools blinking years to teach skills that shouldn't take that long I don't know, but if you choose school you choose to accept that.

I think there is a big difference in what is defined as homework. Lots of talk here of reading and tables and stuff...all of which just falls under normal stuff you do at home to me. Whereas much of the homework that actually comes back is often just busy work. Being a child isn't just about preparing for adulthood, and school shouldn't take over every day.

Forcing work in the way many schools do just encourages kids to think of it as a chore that must be done. What happens when the foot is removed from their neck? We ought to be fostering a love of learning for learning's sake...kids that love to learn will actively seek it out without being forced by school or parents.

'Dead the value is in the fact that when sitting Sats,GCSEs,working in class kids will be expected to solve problems quickly under a time restrain. Those kids sitting there trying to count in 8s on their figures will be hugely disadvantage'.

Green ginger, you are conflating the value of learning multiplication tables with the value of doing homework. You do know tables can be learned in school? They certainly were when I was young and had zero homework.

Expecting kids to go from zero homework to homework every night without putting serious stress on to a child is ridiculous.

Whole generations managed it. It was just seen as a right of passage when going up to secondary.

They can be but kids can find them hard to pick up. Often they need to learn them at home and work on speed to make them lightening quick. Doesn't have to be arduous. There are all manner of ways to do it.

Actually generations didn't.

There has always been homework and around the world.

It seems to be more recent generations in this country that pour scorn on any homework and expect kids to disregards instructions set by teachers.

All this obsession with learning reading and maths etc early is silly and completely unproven by research to help children do well later in life. Finland is the country at top of PISA, the International comparison table for schools, and the kids there start school much later and have very little homework. It's a bit like walking: just because one child starts to walk later than another, this does not mean they will be less good at walking once they're older. We can all recognise the ridiculousness of thinking this would be the case, but for some reason not when it comes to school.

Of course children need to learn self discipline and to learn that the my can't always just do what they want, and somethings they need to knuckle down, but if you enforce too much pressure too early on, it becomes counterproductive.

Generally, I would say that a lot also depend on the child. Some are very calm and ready to do sit down academic activities, and if your kids are like that, by all means, pile on the homework! As long as they are thriving. But forcing a young child who is not into sit down activities, and who has already had a (imo way too) long day at school, to sit down and do more academic work, will
Only make this child resent school work. Children also learn through play, thy need to be physically active too, and they also need down time - they are developing at break neck speed and their minds and bodies need rest sometimes!

To me it sounds like what you are doing is just the right thing. If you see your kids falling massively behind when they're older, then is the time to start pushing them a bit more, but for now, let the children be children. Children are not mini adults, who respond well to competition and pressure, but small humans who are just beginning to develop and find their way in the world. They need love and support more than anything, not pressure and competition. Look at recent statistics of how many children in this country suffer from stress and depression and ask yourself if that is related to the school system and if that healthy.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32302374

Myths of education in Finland.

I should add though, that fundamentally, the way you choose to raise your kids and how you want their approach to school work to be all depends on your own view of life. If you yourself are very into being high achieving, and think that being high achieving is the key to happiness in life, then of course you should push them early on! My comments above reflect my personal view that it's better to be a happy and well-rounded individual with average achievements in life than to be a high achieving unhappy person. Not saying you can't be a happy, high achieving person, but to reach that balance you have to be the kind of person who wants to achieve yourself, it has to come from yourself, not enforced from the outside. So if your child is not naturally competitive or exceptionally skilled at something, and you force them to achieve, they will most likely either rebel in teenage years or spend their lives as the kind of person who never becomes really happy because they always live to meet other people's expectations rather than their own desires.

So in a way, there is no right and wrong here: some people will argue that unless you push kids quite hard they will never achieve their fullest potential and this is regrettable, they will not agree with my arguments that if you push against natural inclination and ability it creates unhappiness, because to them, achievement in itself is happiness. You can't argue with philosophy of life, you just have to find out what yours is and what values you want to pass on to your children, and then stick with it, whether it matches the school's ethos or not.