Conflicted: potentially tiger mum

[Hereforthebeer]

I'm on AIBU to get some home truths

My DCs are primary. They are both really capable and doing well. My initial view of primary school as an outsider was that it was all about being happy and secure.
I don't always make them do homework, I mainly do the reading required but if we have activities, they miss it. I sometimes miss spelling tests and generally am aware of whats required but also want them to love learning and so am sensitive of when I think they need a break/dvd night. So basically i encourage learning, within reason.
Recently, i've been thinking perhaps this is wrong. They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.
WWYD/WDYD?

[GreenGinger2]

I had 3 with ants in their pants including one with Sen. They all managed get to do the paltry amount of homework expected from them throughout primary. An hour a week us perfectly possible for the vast maj. Not sure why you'd base policy making on a tiny minority.

Schools do focus on tables in school however kids aren't robots so many don't pick them up instantly. It often takes regularly practise and home is an ideal place for it. I posted re the benefits of tables and there is stacks of evidence over the huge benefits of reading. The more you read the better you get.

[5to2]

DD1 is in Y7 and does dance classes 3 times a week that are 2/3 hours at a time. She has a bite to eat after getting home from school and is straight out to the class afterwards. Doesn't leave much time for homework but she is managing it all so far.

[Londonmamabychance]

greemginger I'm sorry bit some small
Kids, especially some small
Boys, really have ants in their pants, and forcing them to sit still and do loads of homework early on achieves nothing other than making them resent learning.

It's like you can't understand that what's my hard for you may be hard for some people. Not everyone is the same! And secondly, there is still
Absolutely no prove that homework is necessary to do well. Zero, nothing at all,
Other than assumptions .

[MuseumOfCurry]

We didn't have homework until senior school. We achieved very well at an inner city state comprehensive. This is because the single biggest indicator of academic achievement is parental engagement and the number of books in a home, not the amount of homework issued at age 5 onwards.

I don't agree with homework at 5. I think it makes a lot of sense to have 20 minutes by the age of 8 or so, though.

It's impossible to unpick the benefits of homework from the benefits of parental involvement, because where there is parental involvement and no homework there will almost certainly be some parentally-engineered substitute to fill the void - certainly in the context of 'modern' parenting.

It is also impossible for me to believe that once children start with more complex subjects that there is no benefit from (for example) a 1-hour lesson at 10am, followed up by a 20 minute revision exercise at 6pm. What happens between the time that it's taught at school and the time that it takes the form of homework that makes the former useful and the latter useless?

Even with a 1-hour after school sports club, my 10 year old has eaten dinner and showered by 5.45, which leaves 3:15 of free time in the evening. Is it really so mean for him to have to do 45 minutes of work?

[LittleLionMansMummy]

We didn't have homework until senior school. We achieved very well at an inner city state comprehensive. This is because the single biggest indicator of academic achievement is parental engagement and the number of books in a home, not the amount of homework issued at age 5 onwards.

My parents never sat with us and oversaw homework. They turned up to parents evening, listened to the teachers and spoke with us about areas needed for improvement - from 11yo onwards. They read to us at bedtime from babies until we could read ourselves. They spoke to us meaningfully every day, found out how our day was, if any anything was worrying us, took time to answer all our questions fully and honestly, fostered a sense of wonder in the world around us, encouraged us to ask questions and find out answers etc.

My sisters and I, and the vast majority of our friends who likewise did not get homework at primary school, are fully functioning, successful and intelligent people who have achieved well at school and in life since. I simply do not recognise the correlation between homework for primary aged children and academic achievement at ages 16 to 21.

A parent who takes an active interest, praises their child for trying hard, does stuff with them outside of school/ work hours, encourages them and steers them in the right direction is what is needed, not endless homework which often only disadvantages the children whose parents are not engaged in their learning in the first instance.

[MuseumOfCurry]

No one is saying it has to be little or no parental involvement. But don't make the kids chances to succeed overwhelming dependent on their parents ability to help them out with homework.

They already are. It's impossible to eliminate enthusiastic parenting from the predictors for success.

Also, all you have to do to see how and what your kid is doing is take out his/her books and look at them and talk to your child?

My children don't bring home text books. I don't see very much outside of, well, their homework.

[Colby43443]

Tables and reading require regular practice everyday. DD for example has a little wigwam tables placemat at breakfast and I or dh will test her from that every morning during breakfast (we make it a game). At first she used to look at it but now knows her tables up 5. Similarly I read to her every night, no matter how tired she is, nothing major: a mr men book, or a chapter from Roald Dahl/Harry Potter. She's nearly 5 and so far is further ahead than I was with my tiger father.

[dementedma]

I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of homework some very little ones are getting! Here in Scotland, or maybe just in this area, they have next to none! DDS had reading books and maybe a few words or a worksheet which took about 2 minutes and that was it.
Ds is 14 and still has hardly any!
Both DDS at university so can't have done them too much damage.

[mathanxiety]

I am not sure if tables and reading make such a huge difference that teachers should be leaving so much crucial input to parents. They surely know that there are children who will lose out, fall behind, and never catch up - they know that this is a significant loss. If tables and reading are so important then how about teachers really focusing on them during the school day?

[Colby43443]

Tiger mums make kids do homework and extracurriculars plus extra homework by any means possible and offset this by over the top affection elsewhere. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

I wouldn't call encouraging kids to do their homework tiger parenting tho, I'd call it being a good parent. By teaching your child to complete homework they don't want to do you are teaching them to respect deadlines and preparing them for work. A child should be ready for the realities of work by 16 (regardless of whether they decide to go into f/t education instead).

[GreenGinger2]

In my experience tables and reading make a huge difference. Kids don't automatically pick up everything instantly at the same pace so doing such things at home is hugely beneficial.

Spellings if done well can be to.

I think fostering more parental involvement as regards school( and definitely homework) is hugely important. I also think if supported well most parents can do it.

[mathanxiety]

I am not sure if it's the homework per se that makes the difference, or the fact that the parents of children who do it are interested enough to make sure it gets done.

[GreenGinger2]

In primary sellings,tables and reading take very little. They are written down. Kids just need to learn them. They know how to do it as schools often do plenty to inform kids and parents. Not hard.

And as for kids not being able to sit still as an excuse.

[Londonmamabychance]

Also, all you have to do to see how and what your kid is doing is take out his/her books and look at them and talk to your child?

[Londonmamabychance]

No one is saying it has to be little or no parental involvement. But don't make the kids chances to succeed overwhelming dependent on their parents ability to help them out with homework.

[MuseumOfCurry]

Londonmama I really don't want to be the mother who is constantly asking the teacher what's going on. I overwhelmingly prefer a passive feedback loop where I can be as involved as I wish without imposing on the teacher.

Secondly, what I'm trying to make you see is how detrimental homework requirements are to kids from less resourceful homes.

I feel for these children but I'd resist implementing a system predicated on little or no parental involvement.

[Londonmamabychance]

First of all, that is not at all true in my experience. Less bright children rarely overtake naturally bright ones if both are from similar backgrounds, homework or no homework. Secondly, what I'm trying to make you see is how detrimental homework requirements are to kids from less resourceful homes. And I am not talking mainly about income level, but about how much time and energy the parents have for the children. And how detrimental it is to kids who can't sit still for long and need to burn of energy in spare time etc. but it seems that you can only focus on the narrow idea that yes, in the right circumstances, homework is helpful. Please try to see the broader picture.

[GreenGinger2]

Not all children who do homework are "privileged". Many aren't and do it.

I've taught several bright children from "privileged families" who don't do homework. It shows. They get overtaken by those less "privileged" and less bright.

[Londonmamabychance]

Greenginger, I don't think anyone is disputing that homework, of the kids and family is up for it, is a good thing. My point is just that in many cases it does not work for the individual family and child for a variety of reasons. Please try to understand that not everyone is the same as you and the people you know.

The fact that kids who do homework are ahead is not caused by them
Doing homework: they are the kids who are ALREADY ahead, because they come from resourceful families, and they would be ahead with homework or no homework. The do the homework because of the relatively privileged position they have, it's not the homework that cretes this position.

Many parents can't just pick and choose schools,
And have to put up with what is on offer to them locally, and normal
People certainly have no influence on the governments educational policy.

[GreenGinger2]

Homework is often necessary as it can embed and hone skills in areas such as reading,spelling and tables which children work at an individual level. It also sets good habits in place for secondary.It can come in all manner of forms- games,tablet...The fact that those who do their homework are often ahead speaks volumes. It is also a marathon not a sprint ie when life challnges crop up schools are very understanding and make that clear. Challenges don't exonerate you from ever doing homework though. Interestingly in my experience the kids with English as a second language often go above and beyond everybody else managing to complete homework with bells on.

At the end of a day you have signed a home school agreement. If school sets homework you do it. You don't pick and choose. To do so is very damaging for the child involved.If you don't want to then teach your childre elsewhere.

[Londonmamabychance]

museum engaged parents are great, but you don't need homework to tell you what your child is doing at school. Ask the teacher they'll be happy to tell you, and even happier if you ask them if there's any specific area in which your child could do with improving, and if there's any extra exercises they'd recommends. Surely this is the best way to link in with the school, as the teacher will have the best knowledge of your child's academic development. And again, this is something resourceful parents can do, because they have the energy, but I think that making a school system that relies heavily on parents supervising homework and enforcing learning at home or coins to hurt the most disadvanted kids, and it's not even necessary for the advantages ones.

[booox]

Thirty six makes a fantastic point.

Hwk at this age should be more engaging fun stuff, meanful. To a point, optional.

It's incredibly demoralising that do hwk which usually isn't differentiated (bar spellings and reading) if you struggle.

[clumsyduck]

Although younger I can ask ds what he does at school and he will say he has forgotten or more likely tell me about playtime

In reading with him doing spellings maths etc I can see were he is at and that he is understanding the work set for him which gives me an indication of where he is at genrally at school

[sirfredfredgeorge]

but I still need to know what my 10 year old is doing so I can identify & remediate gaps

Eh? You ask your child...

And how would you know from homework what gaps there were anyway, you can't possibly know if they're not getting homework about something because they've not got to it yet, or not getting to it ever?

[clumsyduck]

Yes museum that's what I was trying to get at but worded it badly

That's exactly it