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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Conflicted: potentially tiger mum

282 replies

Hereforthebeer · 17/11/2016 23:46

I'm on AIBU to get some home truths Wink

My DCs are primary. They are both really capable and doing well. My initial view of primary school as an outsider was that it was all about being happy and secure.
I don't always make them do homework, I mainly do the reading required but if we have activities, they miss it. I sometimes miss spelling tests and generally am aware of whats required but also want them to love learning and so am sensitive of when I think they need a break/dvd night. So basically i encourage learning, within reason.
Recently, i've been thinking perhaps this is wrong. They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.
WWYD/WDYD?

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 18/11/2016 22:36

His mum pushed a lot at primary and sadly he still didn't get into a grammar school which she wanted him to so that is an example of why not to bother in my mind!

God, how sad. You think because he 'failed' to get into grammar school all his effort was wasted and he should never have bothered? Shock

You are lucky to have naturally bright children who excel without really trying. That doesn't negate the efforts of others.

kittymamma · 18/11/2016 22:42

Although OP, if your child is exhausted from school, I would not sit them down to do homework so young. I would speak to the teacher about a reasonable time frame for homework being set so that there is the opportunity to do it on a Saturday or Sunday morning. It is unacceptable to sit a young child down and force them to do homework in the early evening. They are too tired. I say this as someone who has done private tuition of teenagers and I refuse to tutor after 6pm as I insist that they need a break when their brain is tired. I'd say that after 4pm is too late for my 5 year old. We do all homework at weekend or on the days I get home from work early. We do some things in the car though, e.g. I will quiz her on her odd and even numbers, or doubling and halving etc.. she enjoys it (or I assume she does by the fact she giggles at me) and it allows me to access her progress and address misconceptions quickly (I'm still a maths teacher and I just can't help it).

AbernathysFringe · 18/11/2016 22:55

Agree with OP and Thirtysix. Doing all your homework to make the point that you must fulfill obligations is all very well unless you disagree with the amount set. You can make that point later on, why not? I hope your children's teacher isn't reprimanding them constantly though and knows it's your decision?

mrsplum2015 · 18/11/2016 23:21

@Trifle. No what I think is sad is that this child was pushed very hard to achieve with the specific goal of getting to grammar school. And learned to measure his success based on results.
Tbh whether he got in or not I would still think that was sad.

I don't think it's sad at all not to get into grammar school. I don't think they are all that great, esp not if a dc isn't naturally bright. And even though mine is naturally bright we chose not to send her to the grammar school she got into.

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/11/2016 05:50

I think what is missing in this discussion is pushing information in when children are ready and sitting back and letting them get there in their own time when they are not. I.e. Using a golden window of opportunity.

My dd at 8 and in yr4 is suddenly interested in maths and blasting through her timestables in a way she wasn't able 6 months ago. Maths is suddenly clicking. She's willing and able to learn and this is the time to have fun at home with extra maths.

Primary school teachers are aware children need to hit a series of developmental stages before it is even possible for the child to grasp certain concepts taught in the primary years. These stages vary wildly in some children by perhaps two years and is entirely separate from IQ or learning potential in secondary. By all accounts and judging by Trifles posts, she as a secondary school teacher is not aware of this. For you can try to teach a child something until they're blue in the face and yet still they are not able get it. Then 6 months later, teach them the concept once and they grasp perfectly the first time around.

By the time children reach secondary school, their ability to learn, analyse and perceive is already well honed. It is important not to put them off reaching this learning potential before they even get to secondary by making school work a chore and a battle at 4/5/6/7. Giving children a well rounded education outside the classroom is of equal importance at this age. And far more beneficial than a constant battle about a piece of homework, which at this age has far more to do with training the parents to become accustomed to helping with learning than consolidation for the child.

Now that dd is in yr4, she is noticing the odd child, who is not doing their homework. This is because the children lay their work out on their desks for the other children to view and leave positive comments on a slip of paper. This is a clever way to peer pressure children into doing their homework and give them the opportunity to learn to peer critique others work in a controlled and positive way. I do believe that by 8 and 9, it is useful for children to be doing their homework and for parents to be helping them. For getting used to setting time aside and doing regular homework will stand them in good stead and assist with the transition to the more formal structure of secondary school.

Unless extremely fast at learning, a child, who never does their homework, never practices their times tables or spellings outside the classroom is a child, who will likely struggle in secondary. This is very different from missing the odd bit of homework at 4/5/6 or putting the books down for a couple of months because the child has reached a plateau or is finding school exhausting. Once the child has been allowed to rest or get to the next development milestone, it is then more likely to be possible to pick the books up two months later and whizz on to the next stage. Pacing a child's learning in this way is giving the child a wonderful sense of achievement rather than a very long trip to the dentist. And as a parent, we need to be sensitive to this as the teacher cannot be expected to be entirely responsible for the education of 30 plus children.

To say otherwise is frightening to already stressed and worried parents and absolute piffle. Homeschoolers feed the information when their children are ready to great success, which is why so much of the homeschooled children's time is spent outside of any formal classroom style activities.

famousfour · 19/11/2016 06:51

Mummy - I agree with the theory but I would think its hard to apply in practice when you are teaching 30 odd children all at their different paces? And if every parent starts exercising their discretion as to what their children should and shouldn't do, an already imperfect system would feel the strain. Also I haven't got there yet, but presumably streaming is aimed at allowing children broadly to work to their developmental pace?

user1479521274 · 19/11/2016 07:14

In primary my experience was that the workload is usually quite light and increases as you go along. If they don't keep up now they may find it harder to keep up later. I have made sure that dd always keeps up and does all her homework. Once you fall behind it's so much harder to catch up.

My dd has set days for homework -once done she can play and that opens up the rest of the week for fun and activities. She knows what's expected of her without being overwhelmed.

You can also make homework more interesting and helping them learn by play (depending on age of course) One example is to use LEGO pieces when doing maths. Learning doesn't have to be tedious. Also, my dd always found the reading books at school really boring so we bought books or went to the library where she could pick books she was actually interested in reading.

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/11/2016 07:18

famous

I get what you're saying, which is why I said the teacher cannot just be responsible for the education of 30 children. I periodically discussed any reading and homework issues when they arose with the teachers and was always told not to worry, all would be fine. Dd has a health issue, which had her ambulanced to hospital from school last school year and I'm chronically ill. Towards the end of the school year, I had a relapse and was struggling to feed dd let alone keep up with all the homework, spellings and timestables tests. I told the teacher this and her answer was "I think that's the least of her worries" (referring to the incident at school). The teacher is a wonderful person and near retirement with a wealth of experience. She could see I'm an engaged parent, who will get help dd where she needs to be. I think parents can be overly concerned and it's much better to have a quick conversation with the teacher to say your child isn't enjoying reading or doing their homework. This way you get feedback from the teacher as to how you should be reacting as a parent and get guidance on motivating them. As I said, it's really stepped up a notch in yr 4 and as far as dd and I are concerned, homework at this age is pretty much non negotiable. I'd be potentially setting her up for a difficult time in secondary if I took a different tack, which is where Trifle is coming from. If dd has got any really big issues, the teachers are all very approachable. It's all very age appropriate and I'm taking my lead directly from the school.

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/11/2016 07:23

User

My dd would only ever read books she liked. I sent many back unread or half read because she became bored. She has mostly been reading her own books for about a year and says now most of the children do the same.

famousfour · 19/11/2016 07:44

I'm sorry to hear that you and your Dd had a difficult time and I hope things are better. I'm glad your Dd also had such a supportive teacher. Your approach seems very sensible to me - a good dialogue with the school is key. Parents unilaterally deciding what to do re homework is potentially more of a problem. At the same time a school that didn't show some flexibility in light of young children's individual needs would also be an issue.

famousfour · 19/11/2016 07:51

Agreed on the reading books from school being particularly dull at times, Hmm but have so far assumed they are targeting particular reading skills. We read what we can and also supplement with self chosen books to keep the interest alive...

Believeitornot · 19/11/2016 07:57

I didn't have a tiger mum and I was pretty high achieving and self motivated.

Although I was quick to see when good enough would do.

With a tiger mum I reckon I could have done better academically but as it is, I'm a senior executive doing well so meh.

Anyway, I have two dcs. One I can see seems quite self motivated but the other doesn't like formal learning. I can see the value in having a lot of input in the latter'a schooling as he needs it. With my other one, there the risk I'm complacent so will think of how to input in different ways.

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/11/2016 08:41

Thanks famous the teachers have been brilliant and understanding. I really couldn't have asked for much more.

Reading her own books is really only since she hit "library", which are any books no longer colour code graded. The level in the library varies widely as well and she reads to her level. She has read the odd book from school since and I do agree books are graded to progress for early reading. I ended up buying some books from the series she liked earlier on to read at home. biff chip and kipper books because of all the books we sent back unread. Anyway she's doing well in reading and writing so all's fine. I'm now fed up with the Mulberry books about a pony. The author writes about bitchiness, and about the attractiveness of the characters. Had I known I wouldn't have bought them. (Spits chips). But luckily much of that goes above dds head and she's reading. I'm thinking Jacqueline Wilson and Ronald Dahl etc next.

growingweeble · 19/11/2016 17:30

I was stuck with the same dilemma last year (y1). My dd is bright and very enthusiastic about trying new things. But last year was awful as the teacher was pushing spelling etc and dd went from loving reading to hating it and refusing to read at all. She really hated doing her homework. I didn't push it as that felt like it would be counter productive. But, by not helping her at home she was also falling further behind and therefore under increasing pressure in the classroom.
This year she has a new teacher and is flourishing and well above age expectations. But, I am still not sure what the right thing to do is as there must be other kids who are still struggling as expectations at primary are too high in my opinion. So sad we are pushing kids to early and risking pushing a lot of them off education by age 5!

bunnyfuller · 19/11/2016 18:15

We set a homework routine from early on. Reading was an incentive for a 'later' bedtime but we wanted the homework to help mould a positive attitude to doing it. We have few battles around homework now, and other than frustration over my thick help with maths, rarely have. They know now that homework is always done the night it comes in, and before playing/TV/tablets.

bunnyfuller · 19/11/2016 18:18

And I found at primary, if I didn't do phonics/reading/times tables with them, they didn't get done. Schools just can't allow the individual time around core subjects because they're forced to cram in so much to over large classes.

RichardBucket · 19/11/2016 18:24

All of the anecdotes and conjecture in this thread are very interesting, but the claims that your children will end up failing in life because they don't do homework in years 1/2 aren't supported by any actual evidence.

Carry on as you are.

Blossomdeary · 19/11/2016 18:28

Homework is entirely unnecessary in primary school. How is it that my PH and I finished up with a string of degrees etc between us and never at any point had primary school homework?

It is always a dilemma while the current education system is making unreasonable demands on children (and on parents). Most teachers agree that this is so at present.

The nonsense of course is that most of the stuff that they learn in yrs 5 and 6, they simply do all over again when they get to secondary school.

busymomtoone · 19/11/2016 19:16

Curious as to how you plan to foster a " love of learning" letting your kids slob in front of a DVD rather than do the bare minimum the teacher/ school require, thus sending them into school ill- prepared and ready to be shown up by their classmates who have bothered to learn the stuff. No fan of tiger parenting , but basic parenting surely involves teaching your children to meet minimum tasks set and not to think they have some unique dispensation vs rest of class. Sorry but I work in schools and think this attitude does huge disservice to your kids. If you have a problem with too much homework speak to the staff rather than let your little snowflakes miss out - they may even be getting message you don't think they are up to it. Sad !

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/11/2016 19:24

Busymom

A 5/6/7 yr old doesn't get the message their parents don't think they're up to it because said parents don't help them complete the homework. And it doesn't make them a special snowflake. You may work in schools. I'd be surprised if it was primary and I'm glad it's not in dds school with this attitude.

Capricorn76 · 19/11/2016 19:33

But Bloosomdeary the goalposts have moved. You may not have had to do any homework because back then most kids didn't. I don't recall doing any in the 80s but things have changed. The baseline is minimal homework now thus if you don't do any you will fall behind.

Kittenmummy1 · 19/11/2016 20:39

Busymom get your judgy kecks off and go educate yourself about intrinsic value and motivation in relation to how children learn.

I despair of some of the narrow and frankly ignorant views on this thread.

busymomtoone · 19/11/2016 21:11

Mummyoflittledragon - you obviously are concerned/ involved with your child's learning - IMO no comparable circumstances- your family had health issues and you involved the teachers in discussions about homework/ books etc. You also say now year 4 your child does do the homework. Unless I have missed it we don't know what stage primary we are talking about on here and the main issue for me is like it or not even in some year 1s but very definitely in year 2 and 3 unless homework has been highlighted as an issue or previously agreed not to be completed for some reason then kids do get " named and shamed" and children do feel sad if all the children around them have done their spellings/ project/ whatever the task is and they are the odd one out. CBA parents viewed very differently to "good reason for missing occasional homework" parents.

mathanxiety · 19/11/2016 21:21

Believeitornot, I think it is really true that every child is different.

pollymere · 19/11/2016 23:14

It makes me a bit sad for your kids actually. Sorry. They must miss so much playtime and golden time for not handing in homework and not doing their five minutes five times a week reading. Spelling tests you can sometimes get away with but if they're not doing them, they're the ones who get into trouble. Reading makes such a difference to a child's learning too.