Conflicted: potentially tiger mum

[Hereforthebeer]

I'm on AIBU to get some home truths

My DCs are primary. They are both really capable and doing well. My initial view of primary school as an outsider was that it was all about being happy and secure.
I don't always make them do homework, I mainly do the reading required but if we have activities, they miss it. I sometimes miss spelling tests and generally am aware of whats required but also want them to love learning and so am sensitive of when I think they need a break/dvd night. So basically i encourage learning, within reason.
Recently, i've been thinking perhaps this is wrong. They are essentially under achieving even though they are only just out of nappies and I should make them always do their best, even if i sit over them, they should always do what is required even if they are knackered and I should be more 'tiger', more competitive.
WWYD/WDYD?

As a private tutor, I feel that most primary schools do their charges a disservice by not setting enough homework, and parents who don't insist that homework is done are complicit in this. When they start year 7 they will get homework every night and will get detention for not completing it. Also, it is THEIR homework, not the parents. Teachers / tutors need to see what the child has understood by working independently, not what their parents can do.

There are anecdotes about kids achieving great things because their tiger mums pushed them. There is actual data showing that tiger-type parenting is actually associated with LOWER achievement in school and much worse mental health outcomes. My DCs are 1 and 4, so it hasn't really come up yet, but that's definitely not the approach I'm planning to use when they're in school.

That said, I don't think that expecting them to do their homework unless there's a good reason why they can't is tiger parenting, at least not if the amount of homework is reasonable.

My Y3 DS1 had teacher threaten him with no playtime if he doesn't hand in homework.

When discussing homework for primary school aged kids, what key stage are we speaking of? I feel there's big difference between 4-7year olds and 7-11 year olds.

Agreed that a child will be disadvantaged if they don't practise multiplication/division table regularly or don't read a variety of books outside the school hours. No wonder you see strong correlation between parental engagement and attainment.

It's different from pushing a 4 year old to read and make them fill in response books when they are not ready and I don't think many people appreciate how children vary wildly in mastering cognitive skills, from being banging thanklessly to them suddenly catching on easily later - and the variance in skills narrows out at 7 years old, which is school starting age in different countries! Is it really time to worry about their future if a 5 year old doesn't read and isn't taught skills of 'doing homework'?

Busymum

Yes you did miss something. They're yr1 and 2. So still very little. It would be very strange if the teachers said ops children MUST do all homework and reading as forcing them as this age is more damaging than educational.

My dd sometimes didn't do homework because she didn't want to do so this wasn't all down to illness. I explained this. The missed reading was because of dds motivation waxing and waning. She went throught chunks of time in yrR/1/2 when she didn't want to read. It was difficult to get her to read in yr3 because she'd "forgotten" how to read out loud so that took a
lot of encouragement.

I was tiger mummied before school and loved school when I got to my first school. I was early intake at Easter (as in those days you could go once you hit 4) and in a mixed yrR/yr1 group meaning that I was up to 2 years younger than some of the children and could keep up with the literacy aspect - Maths I imagine less so. I stayed there for a term. I then went to another school and had to go back into the beginning of a reception class. I hated it. It was all play, babyish and no learning and my thirst for knowledge and love of school dissipated. So I lost interest in school before I was even 5. My mother did me a great disservice. This was in the 70's. My education never recovered. I failed my 12+ and eventually managed to get a degree although it was hard. My confidence was knocked irrevocably.

My son is 5 in February. At his parents evening in October, his teacher showed me their expectations of children at the END of reception. He was already there.
We encourage him to read, but he enjoys it so much that he asks to read. He is on red books now and still whizzing through them.
We do his writing once a week.
I jokingly asked him to spell Octopus when we were walking and he did!
But when he gets older and gets more things, then we will do them as often as we should be. The best time for us to do them is when we get in from school so he can then chill after.

Love the way doing homework set is seen as tiger parenting. I really feel some kids are let down hugely by their parents.

It depends what you want op I guess.

I frankly wanted children leaving primary understanding that homework is part of life,children who manage their time well and do tasks set well in order to cope easily with secondary expectations.

I wanted kids reading very well, with lightening speed tables,addition,subtraction skills etc and excellent spelling and punctuation. This was not because of some tigerish principles but because I wanted them to cope with and access the secondary curriculum well from day one.

This is because I want them to get very good exam results in order to compete well in the workplace. I won't be able to support them then,I can now and can give them the best chances. It costs very little.

Kids don't suddenly wake up the morning they leave year 6 doing all the above without a fair amount of diligence. You can be bright as you like but without diligence and hard work you will come unstuck.

So give your child the message that homework and hard work doesn't matter by all means but just be aware many other parents don't and you are disadvantaging your child not just now but in the future. Also be aware that expectations re Sats and what kids should start secondary being able to do have changed hugely.

I also think mental health problems in children have very little to do with weekly spelling,reading and homework tasks which take relatively speaking very little time to complete during the course of a week.

I think child mental health issues in this country have more to do with the obsession kids have with phones and screens,the solitary hours they spend on them,seeing their parents spend hours on their own phones instead of engaging with their children in a meaningful way,the lack of time they have to spend with parents doing anything( even doing a homework task or eating a meal together round a table)and the lack of time spent outdoors.

I also think a drip,drip,drip approach over the years is better than a panic knuckle down approach in year 5/6.

If you do the homework,learn the tables and spellings you then use them correctly in class and overtime they are embedded.

Take a look at the year 3/4 spelling list and the 5/6. Seriously by then you do not what to be faffing around with words they should already be spelling and using correctly as a matter of routine in their writing in year1/ 2.

I agree with homework teaching responsibility/ work ethic etc in time for high school but I don't really think it's necessary to start teaching that at 4 or 5. Our school has a very relaxed homework policy anyway. We've not got that far yet but I believe it gets ramped up a little at about age 8 or 9 which I agree with. I always see people comparing our system to the European one... What people don't realise is that pre school is far more structured in these places then when they do start formal school it is very intense and quite high pressure. My DD started her schooling in Cyprus, they may not start what is called school til 6 or 7 but she was sitting in a 'pre school' classroom with 1 teacher and one assistant aged 3. Once they do start school any work not finished in class must be completed at home each day and if they fall behind its pretty much a case of tough!

The studies show repeatedly that homework has NO AFFECT OMY LONGTERM OUTCOMES. So as much as you like to think it's setting up good work habits, teaching them spellings, tables, how to be a good citizen, win a Nobel prize etc. It doesn't:)

Could you link to learning your tables having no benefit please. Also re spellings kids differ as do teaching methods. We do a combination of l/c/w/c learning word origins and patterns,games etc. I'd like to see links saying that is pointless.

It's the type of homework and how it is done that can have limited impact.

One of my DC writes too fast and can make silly spag mistakes,going over spellings has been hugely beneficial. Getting to is key stage 2 and having poor spelling hinders children. You can pretend that doing spelling homework doesn't help and teach your child that,many others choose otherwise. Kids that can do column addition,long multiplication,are lightening quick with tables have a huge advantage in maths problem solving and Sats. Sometimes practice and drill is needed and is of huge benefit.

But hey convince yourself and teach your children that homework is pointless,let them develop a poor attitude. Many others will and are choosing to do otherwise.

mellowautumn let's not let years of research and study get in the way of an unproven heuristic!

Do share.

Would love to see the links saying reading nightly( thus improving vocabulary), learning tables at speed,embedding spellings and maths skills,setting good study habits.....are of no use.

Homework varies hugely as do studies on any subject. If you're spending hours on say constructing a model of a volcano which the parent does much of then fine but there are many other valuable things that kids can be set. Looking at what is valuable is key. A blanket disregard and poor attitude is extremely unhelpful.

The fact is kids from cultures where hard work and diligence is routine do better. Plenty of stats to back that up.

Through p1 I didn't enforce homework as much as I maybe should have, my dd refuses to learn, she has good logic of why learn to read when others can do it for you .

This year I'm upping the game a bit to get her to learn to read and concentrate more.

In wsiting for Slow assessment of add and she is bright just lacks the will and concentratiin to do it.

Greenginger no one is saying its "no use." But there's no evidence to show it makes any difference whatsoever in the long term.

And let's be honest here Google is your friend - do some research- it's a great study skills to have :)

Ha ha ha!

ReallyKitten.www.theguardian.com/education/2012/mar/29/homework-linked-better-school-results

No thanks Autumn you made the statement,you can link. These cast iron stats devaluing all homework should be at your fingertips.

www.theguardian.com/education/2012/mar/29/homework-linked-better-school-results

Or

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008679/Yes-homework-really-bad-children-Results-begin-drop-takes-longer-90-minutes-hour-perfect-time.html

As I said studies and homework can vary hugely. To say all homework and hone study has zero benefit is ridiculous.

Instead of quoting a 4 year old article, or worse, the Fail, why not look at the final report by Prof Pam Sammons, referenced in your link.

doc.ukdataservice.ac.uk/doc/7540/mrdoc/pdf/7540_eppse_report_ks2.pdf

Just one of the many predictive and protective factors is termed as Home Learning Environment. An aspect of that will include doing set homework, but ALSO includes other non-set, educationally focussed activities. Its a hefty report, and whoever wrote the press release in which those articles are based, did the researchers a disservice.

You don't need to be a 'tiger mum' to get your kids to do their homework. I'm a teacher but I'm not a big fan of lots of homework for primary kids (or any kids actually). But I think by encouraging your children to think homework is optional, you are getting them in bad habits and making a rod for your own back.

If the homework is excessive, speak to the teacher about it. But otherwise, YABU.

Erh - we are talking primary - both of those are for 14 year olds - perhaps more homework for you ?

God there's some massive conflation going on isn't there?