To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

Wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman.

That's the point I was trying to make.

Plenty of women don't wear dresses or skirts at all and even those who do don't wear them all the time. In this country women and men both dress similarly on an every day basis - e.g jeans, trousers, t-shirts, shirts, trainers, etc.

So what does it mean to dress like a woman?

You know what.

This really really really boils my fucking piss.

Exactly, OP. Happens every day and you never know because amazingly, transwomen don't tend to attack ciswomen in the loos. In fact they're in more danger of being attacked themselves.

I stumbled across this thread and am surprised at the level of stupidity!
Apparently there is a huge fallacy that having a penis makes you dangerous, something I was not aware of. Being a rapist or a child molester makes you dangerous FYI, they are not always men. If a rapist or a child molester wants to walk into a public toilet and commit an offence who is stopping them? The security ... oh wait there is not any.

I hope your fathers, sons, brothers, husbands and male friends know how dangerous you find their genitalia.

And maybe don't be quite so proud of your failure to understand the extremely straightforward difference between sex and gender?

The NHS do not have a good explanation.

Sex is not 'assigned at birth' it is correctly identified and recorded at birth based on genitalia.

Gender is not a 'feeling'. It's a social construct based on stereotypes that is assigned to sexed bodies. Girls like pink and shopping. Boys like blue and maths and sports. Women are more emotionally in tune and better at caring, so they can do all the emotional grunt work for free as well as all the unpaid care work. Men are more ambitious, so we better promote them higher and pay them more and if they have time to take the kids to the park or visit their mothers then they must be superman. It's damaging to women, it keeps us at the bottom of a hierarchy, it's the reason we get paid less and work harder. It's the reason girls suffer FGM and are disproportionately trafficked. It's not a feeling.

Aaaaaaaargh

not one person has answered how we can monitor this to make sure no transwomen go into female toilets

By making it an offence, like anything else.

Apparently there is a huge fallacy that having a penis makes you dangerous,

No there isn't

So why bother posting Halloweensnake? Just pop off to the threads you want to read. It's not like the title was misleading.

How many of us have actually challenged Dave Muscato or any other trans-looking woman and been called a bigot though? I wonder if it's just another think that only happens on planet MN

I have lots of thoughts about transactivism, not a huge number of thoughts about trans people in general (people should be happy, live and let live etc.), but the toilet thing is a ridiculous battle, and I have LONG thought that general loos make much more sense anyway, transpeople or no transpeople. I actually don't mind standing in a queue with a man, and have been alone in a room with men LOTS of times without being raped or perved upon. I am happy to take my chances in a unisex loo.

There are arguments worth having with the misogynist and often homophobic transactivist movement, but toilet access is not one of them, and is one that we should have sorted out by now anyway for other reasons.

Caveat: In the US, loos often have huge gaps around the door - more than 1cm wide sometimes and you are NOT PRIVATE. I would prefer not to be fiddling about with a tampon or examining my knickers with a man in plain view under those circs, whether he identifies as a man or a woman, because I don't want ANYBODY in plain view then!

Here exit

Do those saying a penis shouldn't be in a women's only space never use the men's toilets?

But trans women have a penis.

More often than not.

I do understand why women may feel threatened

But how am I supposed to feel (as a survivor of rape and sexual abuse) if I'm in a women's toilet/changing room and someone who looks like a man and is very clearly a man walks in?

Why is his right to feel safe more important than my right to feel safe?

No I never use the mens'.

Why would I?

stopfucking

It's the thin of the wedge. Once you say men are women and therefore allowed in women's spaces you say it's ok for anyone who says they're a woman to do the following:

• access rape crises centres and women's refugees
• take women only roles: your 15 year old daughter who is having a vaginal examination can no longer request not to have a "man who identifies as a woman" perform that procedure
• receive funding for a femal scholarship despite being socialised as a male.

I could go on and on...I find it so depressing that people are ok with this.

Its not about toilets.
Going on about toilets is just a tactic to belittle valid concerns and reduce them to female hysteria.

A tactic that has been used for centuries to silence women.

I don't care about toilets.

I've never used a mans toilet. It wouldn't occur to me to.

I am quite happy for a transwoman to use the same toilets as myself. I believe that they are a woman, maybe not born that sex but born that gender. Oh and I can't abide transphobic people and sadly MN is full of them

AVirginLitTheCandle you are a woman (not a bloody ciswoman) and therefore are less important.

You want to feel safe.

A trans woman wants to feel safe.

Guess who's rights trump who's?

So the OP has never seen this topic discussed here before, and hasn't come across definitions for sex and gender before? Seems unlikely to me.

So go elsewhere then Exit

I'm not saying anyone's right to feel safe trumps anyone else's...I'm genuinely trying to work out why anyone feels unsafe in the presence of a transwoman.

And I wasn't being proud of not understanding the difference between sex and gender.

Got to love MN for putting words in your mouth!