To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

NO ONE IS BORN A GENDER.

I did not pop out of Mum, look down at my nethervregions and go 'sigh, guess I better like pink, sparkles and wearing dresses then.'

Beacause...op...this has been done soooooo many times..you get your answer by looking up the subject in search...you can get a gist of what people think..it's been done to death..it's not a subject anyone is going to agree on...a bit like brexit and trump....no one is going to agree...

MistressMolecules people don't have a gender.

Guess who's rights trump who's?

Exactly.

I'm a little bit envious of all these smug posters who obviously have no reason to viscerally, immediately understand what can happen if you find yourself in the wrong enclosed space with the wrong man TBH.

I love being moved on.

I'll do the same to any trans I come across.

Gandalf157 nobody is saying that all men are predators or violent or rapists. Nobody has said that women can't be violent either.

However the vast majority of violent crimes and sexual crimes are committed by men. Jumping up and down and screaming "but women can be violent too!" does not change the fact that on the whole men are on average more violent than women are. Just look at prison stats.

There is also an error in your post as you said that not all rapists are men. This is incorrect as only men can be charged with rape in the UK. Women can be charged with sexual assault but not rape.

I'm actually quite intrigued about the comparison to boys in male spaces.

Gandalf's post is the main argument as to why boys over 8 should use male facilities.

Yet women say if they don't feel its safe, and many don't, for their male child to use a male toilet then they will take or send them into the ladies, regardless of age.

As a society are we saying male only spaces are inherently dangerous for anyone other than a straight male adult?

We, women, are teaching our boys this from a very early age.

Don't feel safe in the mens? Use the ladies.

If mens facilities weren't so demonised maybe transwomen wouldn't feel unsafe.

You want to feel safe.

A trans woman wants to feel safe.

Guess who's rights trump who's?

Because it's still a patriarchal society...therefore a "woman" who used to be a man is more important than a woman who was born a woman.

It does upset me when posters pop onto these threads and say we are full of hate towards transpeople, but do not cite particular posts or ideas that make us so. Wanting safe spaces for women does not mean I hate transgender people. Wanting being a "man" or "woman" not to be a label you can just put on and off at will does mean I hate transgender people.

I'm sure this definitely happened, lesley1980:

My husband is a hospital Dr & this year he has had 3 trans women admitted to female wards. All of them caused problems by continually flashing their willy & one was foul in his language & sexual comments. None of them
Could be moved to a male ward despite happily flashing their male parts. The women in the wards had no rights to feel safe & had to put up with this until single rooms were found. I know this isn't typical of transgender people but it shows how the rules make women vulnerable.

I also enjoyed whoever extrapolated wildly into trans women being allowed into the changing rooms at their local pool to wave their hypothetical penises at the horrified ladies of the parish council.

the attitude and language from some posters towards trans people are abhorrent. and as for fucking Spartacus, give me fucking strength. christ.

Why would any woman want to go into a gents' toilet, if gents' toilets aren't apparently even considered safe for transwomen even if they are wearing male clothing?

Unisex toilets are safer all round. Like they have in the newer build schools to avoid bullying. Basically a row of cubicles in an alcove in a corridor, the sinks in the middle and none of it enclosed.

I too worry that a transwoman would be in as much danger from the arsehole men in the men's. The sort of person who attacks a woman wouldn't think twice assaulting a transwoman. Or a man if they thought they'd win the fight.

We're all scared of the same people: anti-social men. And also, I worry sometimes about other women in closed in toilet spaces.

I've also been in unisex changing rooms in new pools. They're called changing villages. You pick a cubicle (family ones available for all of you to fit in). The showers are unisex. No one takes off their clothes outside a cubicle.

It's about time we stopped trying to make everyone fit into either one or the other. Modern schools and swimming pools have unisex toilets and changing rooms and I'm sure it has reduced all sorts of antisocial behaviour, not just the aggressive men.

Still doesn't explain why you're here posting Halloweensnake.

And actually the PP who said it's not about toilets per se, but by extension the right of men claiming to identify as women being allowed access to women only refuges etc, that makes sense to me and NOW I can start to understand the issue. I'm a very black and white thinker so to me it was about toilets and ONLY toilets.

Yes I have seen threads posted about this subject but they tend to be in the feminist section which intimidates me slightly.

And yes, I have seen the difference between sex and gender explained before, but I haven't been on MN much recently and couldn't immediately recall it, and figured if I understood it I would have been able to recall it.

I'm genuinely trying to work out why anyone feels unsafe in the presence of a transwoman.

How many people have explained to you that it isn't about the transpeople per se but about the dissolution of the sex segregation?

You are being monumentally disingenuous here.

OP why do you think there are segregated toilets in the first place?

Ah, I see I've stumbled into a well worn argument and I'm on the absolutely fucking correct 'wrong' side of Mumsnet opinion. I agree with you OP, you're not being unreasonable.

And for the record, I do have reason to viscerally, immediately understand what can happen if you find yourself in the wrong enclosed space with the wrong man and I'm still not worried about it, because transwomen are not men.

myghast

If you're genuinely curious spend some time reading the Feminust boards.

Start by asking yourself "what does it mean to live as a woman"? It's an interesting and thought provoking question

Because .op .you don't get to decide where I post..

I'm embarrassed for you OP.

Ps, totally agree with Manumission,

And for the record, I do have reason to viscerally, immediately understand what can happen if you find yourself in the wrong enclosed space with the wrong man and I'm still not worried about it, because transwomen are not men.

FFS Susan can't you read?

Personally I'm not worried about the transpeople specifically either.

I AM worried about others who will take advantage of sex segregation being lifted.

No I don't Halloweensnake but if it's soooo soooo boring because it's been done before I'm amazed you'd waste your time posting...but you go ahead if you want.

Don't be Waitrose, I'm fucking awesome.

If transwomen who are pre op are not men what are they?
Like it or not being male is in every cell of your body

OP ordering people off your thread is SUCH a bad look.