To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

TheProblem - please point out (and report) the transphobic posts

And the phrase you are looking for "wrong sex", not "wrong gender"

What do you think about trans women using female changing facilities, OP? Ones that don't have cubicles and it's open plan?

The leisure centre I go to doesn't have cubicles in the single sex changing rooms and everybody just gets changed out in the open. Currently I am perfectly happy to be naked in the changing room in front of other women but there is no way I would be happy if someone who has a penis and is biologically male decided he was going to use the women's changing room because he identifies as a woman.

I'm a survivor of rape and sexual abuse and I just wouldn't feel comfortable getting changed and being undressed in front of a stranger with a penis.

Again I'm not saying that trans women are rapists however I am saying that it is not a complete stretch to think a rapist might pretend to be trans in order to get access to female changing facilities.

Because lines have to be drawn somewhere.

Toilets are segregated by sex.

That's S E X.

If I was a transwoman I'd be more intimidated going into the men's toilets whilst dressed as a woman because let's face it, men can be dicks, far more sexual harassment etc is perpetrated by men. And before anyone says 'that's why transwomen shouldn't be allowed in women's toilets', I think the number of transwomen who would attempt to use their penis on someone is incredibly small. And surely, it's the penis we're all afraid of....hasn't everyone been saying penises shouldn't be in a women's toilet.

harder little boys needing supervision are not comparable. Idiotic to compare the two.

For me it's not about thinking genuine trans women are a danger, it's about the fact that anybody can access womens toilets and if questioned can claim to be transgender, whether they actually are or not. So a man who wants to gain access to womens toilets can pretend to be transgender, which opens up threats that aren't there if toilets are segregated as "has a penis" and "doesn't have a penis".

Because simply put, opening the door to transgender people opens the door to anyone that identifies as a woman and the includes any old weirdo that is not a woman or even genuinely identifies as one, but just wants to go in a womans place of privacy to exploit
Agree entirely with this post.
I would personally have no issue with post operative transwoman using the loo, as again this doesn't open the floodgates to others in the same way.
There is a reluctance to accept that women are more in danger from men than other women, but we are.

(Meanwhile back in MNHQ a big siren has gone off and legions of MNHQers are sighing deeply and reaching for the big red delete button and the gin)

TheUnworthy wouldn't it be better to look at the stats of how many trans women (am I using the right terminology?) have attacked women in a public loo?

I think the issue is that women are losing their space assigned for them. It's not that anyone thinks every tran is a rapist hiding in a toilet cubical.

My husband is a hospital Dr & this year he has had 3 trans women admitted to female wards. All of them caused problems by continually flashing their willy & one was foul in his language & sexual comments. None of them
Could be moved to a male ward despite happily flashing their male parts. The women in the wards had no rights to feel safe & had to put up with this until single rooms were found. I know this isn't typical of transgender people but it shows how the rules make women vulnerable.

Bluntness, but do you feel that your opinion on this shoukd trump other women's opinions?

Are we allowed to not be ok with it, or will it be forced on us to accept (as men's wishes, and supporters of men's wishes (OP) are more important than women's wishes?)

Because simply put, opening the door to transgender people opens the door to anyone that identifies as a woman and the includes any old weirdo that is not a woman or even genuinely identifies as one, but just wants to go in a womans place of privacy to exploit*

THIS with bells on.

Sorry if I'm being naive here. I'm quite weak physically, a strong woman could easily beat me up. Should muscly women have their own toilets too?

No! Because they don't have fucking penises!

If someone with a penis is going to be welcome to use the women's loos then surely we should just follow this through to what seem to me to be logical conclusions:

• install urinals so that the transgender person identifying as female can pee in comfort; and
• let all men use the women's loos (whether transgender or not) as it really doesn't make any difference to me as a women whether the person in the women's loos identifies as female or not so we may as well let all men in.

So we need to worry about spesh snowflake trans folk?

Here's a thought. Don't wear the dress

I haven't worn a dress for years.

Because simply put, opening the door to transgender people opens the door to anyone that identifies as a woman and the includes any old weirdo that is not a woman or even genuinely identifies as one, but just wants to go in a womans place of privacy to exploit

This. 100%

And also:

There is a reluctance to accept that women are more in danger from men than other women, but we are.

This. It boggles my mind that women are so willing to lie to themselves, and each other, about this.

There was a documentary about this very issue recently. It was sadly predictably a bit "me, me, me" but it's worth a watch if for no other reason but to roll your eyes at the song about peeing wherever you want. You know just like men do already! The irony appeared to pass them by completely.

If I was a transwoman I'd be more intimidated going into the men's toilets whilst dressed as a woman because let's face it, men can be dicks

So, to protect transwomen, biological women are thrown under the metaphorical bus?! The solution to male violence should not be to put women at risk.

I prefer a female nurse to do it for me. Specifically, someone who knows what it is like to have my anatomy

Someone should have told that to the woman who botched my first smear and the 2 women who botched both of my coil fittings.

Frankly I'd rather whoever did it was competant, I really couldn't care two hoots for their gender

OlennasWimple, thank you, I didn't realise they could be reported.

I did mean wrong gender, as in being made to use the wrong toilets for the gender the the transperson identifies with, though I appreciate that my sentence was a little garbled.

OP - just don't even bother !!!! Yanbu

But there is a strong view in here (strong ! ) so don't even bother

I'm afraid I still don't understand the difference between gender and sex either. And it's not a case of being 'right on' to not care or notice, I'm not doing it to be 'cool', it's about doing what's right. Maybe it's because the transwomen I've known I've known pre and post surgery but only ever thought of them as women.

And yes, in theory a man could dress as a woman to get access to female only spaces, but as I previously asked, how could you monitor that? The transwomen I knew were very convincingly female.

When I go swimming I tend to go early in the morning when it's quiet. Often if I shower afterwards or am getting changed there's only myself and maybe one or two other women in the changing room.

If a man suddenly decided he was a woman and didn't feel safe using the men's facilities so was going to use the women's facilities instead during that time then I would feel so bloody vulnerable and unsafe being there alone in various states of undress with a strange male.

Why is his right to feel safe more important than my right to feel safe?

Bollocks has someone who "identifies as a woman" transitioned and legally female.

A year ago my liberal, MC self was equally aghast at what I saw as right wing conservatism re trans rights. I am soooo grateful to the many intelligent articulate woman in MN who have helped me to understand why its important to question the absurdity about transactivism.

OP do you understand that under current thinking any many can say he "identifies as a woman" and can be treated as such. He doesn't even need to bother wearing a dress, let alone go through any physical transition.

Le big fucking sigh.