Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

Muslims are not allowed to have anything to do with alcohol. That includes sitting at the same table it's being served.

I really don't think that is the case. I have worked with some massively devoutly Muslim colleagues who didn't mind being out where a glass of wine was served. And I'm talking full beards, prayer breaks several times a day and getting up during the night to pray too. They didn't mind, but their Islam was a lot more about self reflection, moderating their own behaviour and demonstrating their religion through charitable kind acts to others. Which is a lot different from the sort of Salafist/Wahabi nutters who do this sort of thing and outwardly express their religion through aggression, demands and control rather than through being decent, nice people like my colleagues.

Funnily enough I did work in a public sector role where a girl got disciplined for something similar. She was a diversity officer. Someone sent out a general office email invite to drinks and she used reply all to tell us that we shouldn't go for work nights were alcohol was concerned and even 2 colleagues going for a pint could be a discriminatory act. She wasn't disciplined for her opinion though, but for sending out a general email which was not compliant with official HR policy and she had not consulted senior staff over and gone beyond her remit. She was a Salafist.

I don't know why people assume this is a general Muslim requirement. It's not. Even for some very, very religious and conservative Muslims. Only for a certain subset of quite extreme ones.

Janey50

People are making a point in response to people asking "why is she even going to a Christmas meal if she's a Muslim?"

The point is that you don't have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas.

I sympathise, if it was a regular Christmas meal then you should choose somewhere the majority would feel happiest but given the circumstances I think you need to include her. Afternoon tea sounds like a good compromise.

I have many Muslim friends and colleagues and have encountered the full spectrum of attitudes to alcohol from Drinking freely through personal abstinence to refusing to support a business who trade partly in alcohol.

It Causes a lot of tension for a good friend - her family (so parents and siblings) avoid alcohol but feel strongly it is part of UK culture and therefore as "good" hosts they should offer it to those of us who would normally drink eg. Weddings, naming ceremony etc. Her ILs (but not husband) also don't drink but won't countenance purchasing it, or being in the same place as alcohol is served.

Cue her Mother apologising profusely to lots of guests at the dry wedding and explaining that she was mortified therr was nothing to drink.... Most of us were unfazed by the lack of alcohol but a two hour long "drinks reception" is hard work without the lubricant of a glass of champagne! When his parents aren't present (eg. 40th birthday parties) she and her husband are teetotal but happy for those around to drink. It all gets very complicated!

No no don't have that, have it where you want, tell her where it is, if she is not able to go too bad. Like one poster said, have a small thing mabey at work if that is possible, and have the main do at where you choose.

She is imposing her religious beliefs on you, and that is not on. Have it where the majority want.

My FIL is not a nutter. Being a pious Muslim is not synonymous with being extreme. He's not salafi/wahabi either.

My FIL would never have this situation arise because he would just excuse himself from the outing politely. No demands or aggressions.

Sorry but some Muslims don't want to be around alcohol. That doesn't make them nutters.

As an 18 year old she might feel intimidated at the thought of being surrounded by drunk work colleagues.

Can't speak for op's colleagues, but I and my friends find it perfectly possible to enjoy a drink or two on an evening out without getting drunk, or being hungover and needing paracetamol the next morning, as was said up thread.

As for afternoon tea, that depends on whether the event can be in working hours. Most afternoon tea type places aren't open in the evening. Or if they are, they've moved on to an evening menu. Including alcohol.

I think you should put away the idea of any food related event if she is that strict. I would approach HR and ask if they can create or point you in the direction of team building exercises you can do within work time. You mentioned team 'differences' as the reason for this outing, so I'd use these exercises to target what the core issue/s are.

As for the wider Christmas works do, no one or small minority should be pandered to. It should be an event that suits the majority and if some people choose not to go, so be it.

reader77 but the colleague seems obliged to participate. This is a team building exercise, being arranged by her employer as part of her job; it's not really part of her 'social life'. Given that it's a team building exercise, maybe she feels it's hard for her to say "I am not going to participate", particularly as there don't seem to be any firm plans for the event.

I also imagine that being 18 years old, and quite possibly having been brought up to avoid alcohol (and likely still living at home), this isn't a situation she has had to handle very often.

Ah ok, fair enough.

Its a Christmas meal, not a team building exercise, so they should have it where the majority want.

I will add I teach 18 year olds (or near enough 18).

They veer between hideous cocky self-centred entitlement with little thought about anyone else to being awfully insecure and overwhelmed about being almost adults and desperately trying to find their way in the world.

She's young, lives at home I'm sure,
This is undoubtedly her first work environment, being with proper grown ups and not her mates at college.

She's learning how to navigate this world and she's doing it wrong for sure. So a helpful nudge the right way and explaining that she can't just dictate according to her whims would be great for her.

No it's not a Xmas meal. This was clarified ages ago.

I don't drink (not religious, just think it's pointless and I'm usually driving) and as others have said, it IS irritating that work events always seem to involve getting pissed. But I just slip off home once things descend into silly drinking games. I don't make a fuss.

Aeroflotgirl - see page 1. It is not a Christmas meal, it's a 'special meal' being had a team building event.

There is actually going to be a separate Christmas party and the OP expects that her colleague simply won't attend that one.

Right, that still limits where you can go, most eating establishments serve alcohol. I would still go with the majority, or you will end up at somewhere like a garden centre cafe, Tescos, or Costa.

Aeroflotgirl others have suggested Indian restaurants (i could think of a couple of other venues where I last lived in the UK, but have no idea where the OP works). People have recommended asking the colleague for suggestions.

Also, she isn't refusing to go to any establishment that serves alcohol, she just said that she can't be at a table where alcohol is being consumed. I imagine the OP's colleagues manage to get through most lunchtimes at work without drinking - surely they can manage one free lunch without alcohol, for the sake of inclusivity at a team building event.

They can all get as drunk as they like at the Christmas party, or in their own time.

Op said they can't go anywhere with a bar either...

Also, she isn't refusing to go to any establishment that serves alcohol,

On page three of the thread: "It has to be halal obviously, and I can't go anywhere that serves alcohol."

They can all get as drunk as they like at the Christmas party, or in their own time.

Can we please stop equating liking to have a drink on an evening out with getting drunk? They may be one and the same for some people, but not for everyone.

That is what they will have to do, and I have just read a few of op posts, it is important she comes to help team cohesion, so it will have to be somewhere like an Indian, Arabic or Iranian restaurant, they will have to save their alcohol consumption until the main Christmas do.

HarrietVane99 - the OP also said her colleague said it might be okay if other people drink beer at the other end of the table from her, so (even if that still sounds a little odd and restrictive to non-Muslims) she seems to at least be trying to compromise.

Simple solution - stay in the office, eat nothing, drink nothing, say nothing, pretend you like each other, go home as usual.

I know, but they need there there, so they will have to accomodate her wishes.

You can't accommodate everyone - I know, used to organise events!