Colleague doesn't drink for religious reasons, so we're never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol. AIBU to find this irritating?

[AChristmasCactus]

I work with a girl in her early twenties who's muslim.

We are trying to organise a Christmas meal, but we can't go anywhere that has a bar serving alcohol, and we can't have alcohol on the table so none of us can drink.

I feel that she's entitled to her views but to force it on the rest of the group is unnecessary. I'm vegan but wouldn't insist that people eat vegetarian food around me. I don't feel that religion is any different.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a drinker so I don't care as I can go with out. But I think it's the judgemental/controlling aspect that gets on my nerves. AIBU to feel this way?

i see equating religious beliefs on a par with believing in santa, fairies or the tooth fairy.

That's not insulting that's my beliefs and everyone is entitled to theirs.

However to try and control a whole group of people to do what suits you and refuse to compromise is rude.

I've read the full thread.

I still don't understand what the girl has actually said.

Is she saying the event must take place in a fully halal completely dry venue or she's not going? In which case I'd tell her you will take her views into consideration but all those stipulations may not be possible.

Or is she saying she'd rather not go to a pub/bar. And be be sat next to the people drinking. I don't blame her the smell off alcohol is really strong to me. And I do not like drunken leery people.

Or she doesn't want to pay for other people's alcohol consumption. Again I don't blame her alcohol costs a lot more than the tap water I drink with me meals and I'd resent paying for everyone's booze too.

Go ahead and send out and email of up to three suggestions the place with most votes wins and you can book.

She can attend or not, no need for anyone to get upset about it.

Also if it's after working hours she might just not want to go. I get on with my colleagues but I don't want to spend my evenings with them when I can spend the time with my family. Yeah I'm antisocial like that. But nobody gets overly upset by it altho they do occasionally tease me about not joining them in their pub crawls/pool nights/whatever. And I tease them back for not making it into work the following morning because they're too hungover.

And I'm a Muslim too, who gets given champagnes. For Xmas every single year, except one year where someone told boss I didn't drink.....so she got me booze filled chocs instead (bless her). My neighbours are always lovely about taking the gifts off my hands.

Muslims are not allowed to have anything to do with alcohol. That includes sitting at the same table it's being served.
Why are posters saying she's attention seeing and dictating to everyone? She really can't do it. She's probably too young and naive to realise that people actually mind going somewhere where there's no alcohol. Many Muslims just wouldn't attend something like that.

I work with people of a similar persuasion. I mean to bar, no alcohol and halal.

I find it irritating also. We tend as a middle ground to go to an unlicensed curry place. People can then bring booze if they wish

Think the issue of religion is a red herring.

Agreed. I have become irritated by those who want to paint me as deliberately starting a thread to attack muslims when the religion is, to me, utterly incidental. I don't like the way it's being used to shut down debate.

fuzzy I gave an indication of the conversation on page 1/2, she doesn't want alcohol on the table or she won't come.

OP can you send out a list of a few places and ask for votes? If she doesn't come she doesn't come.

This does sound like a pain in the arse.
If the idea is to bond and be inclusive, it sounds like you need to do a non food based outing. Bowling? Do people drink when they bowl? I have no idea.
But as you are having a seperate Christmas meal anyway, it could be OK for everyone to do.

Well then she doesn't come if the majority want to go to a restaurant and have a glass at the table.

Just got done reading this and I agree Tea won the thread! I was going to comment in the same vein as Tea but not as eloquently. At the end of the day, tolerance is a two way street and it only works if both parties exercise it. She is only 18 and this is likely her first job, she'll need to learn to exist in the professional world even if others do things she doesn't approve of. To compromise is best, in fact it's necessary if we are all going to make a success of our multicultural society. Dictating that the majority change their behaviour to satisfy your ethics rarely provides a happy ending.

Personally I'd go with the two event option, an afternoon tea for the team and informal after work drinks for those who wish. She might feel unfairly excluded by not being able to join in after work drinks but she cannot reasonably stop her colleagues from socialising after work.

Muslims are not allowed to have anything to do with alcohol. That includes sitting at the same table it's being served.

But sitting at a table on a restaurant with wine on the table is something which is widely accepted in the country in which she lives. It's not a controversial thing to do. Thus she cannot be surprised if some of her colleagues express mild annoyance that they are being prevented from having turkey, trimmings and perhaps a sherry by her religious beliefs.

Religious freedom does not give you the right to impose your beliefs on others. It's her choice to believe thing that go against the mainstream and it's her choice to decline an invite.

If the op was insisting that no one eat meat in front of her and that everyone MUST go a vegan place, then she'd be being ripped to bits on here.

the only way the party should be compelled to. It go somewhere is if one of them had a life threatening allergy.

This girl needs to grow up and realise she will work with people from many cultures in the uk - most of us manage to rub along by not forcing our preferences on others.

I work in a multi-country, multi religion, multi ethnicity team. We all manage to get along fine . I try to be flexible with my team, for example this year one member requested to move work patterns due to Ramadan- I managed to make that work as we had some out of time zone stuff she picked up. Similarly, orthodox and western Christmas are covered by opposing teams.
We try to be sensitive to each other's culture and holidays and whatnot. We manage fine. None of us would chuck a hissy fit at having a meal in a restaurant which alcohol was served, although several of us (myself included) are non drinkers.

I don't find that discourteous.I have no obligation to respect a god that doesn't exist for me. You're nitpicking at this point.

I don't think it's nitpicking. I didn't say you have an obligation to respect a god you don't believe in. I think it's discourteous because you decided to phrase it in a way that is likely to be offensive to many ('some bloke on a cloud') instead of what the woman believes in - God. Would you say 'some bloke on a cloud' to this woman?

I work with quite a few Muslim men who have the same issue, the only option is to book a table at a dry Indian restaurant. But at Christmas who wants curry? So we book a table at the local pub and the men don't come. It's far from ideal but otherwise we just wouldn't end up having a do at all.
Our company puts on a proper party at a local hotel for all the staff and they don't go to that either.
We do try to go out at a different time of the year for a meal that evening will enjoy but then some of the older ladies I work with won't eat spicy food.
I've learned that you can't please everyone

If she is so against non muslim ideals why is she coming to a Xmas meal. I am afraid I would say we are going here, come or don't come.

OP, what do you hope to achieve with this team building? I googled the term and found this on wiki:

Team building is a collective term for various types of activities used to enhance social relations and define roles within teams, often involving collaborative tasks.

I think a dinner, with or without alcohol, or even a tea, would be more of a social exercise. Maybe you should try something like an escape room?

But is this even a Christmas meal? The OP originally said that, then said this was actually a 'special ' meal as a team building exercise, just for her subteam, and there'll likely be a separate Xmas party. Doesn't sound as if this is the main office Xmas celebration (honestly it's not even clear if it's actually a Christmas celebration at all).

Incan not think of anywhere that does not sell alcohol other than fast food restaurants and some coffee shops.

Muslims are not allowed to have anything to do with alcohol.That includes sitting at the same table it is being served. Really? I know quite a few Muslims and none of them have a problem with being at a table/in a room where alcohol is being served. They just don't drink it themselves. Or maybe they are not 'proper Muslims'?

Aaaaaand the stupid comments just keep on coming and repeating.

It's NOT an Xmas meal.

OP I have a question: your title says we are never allowed to go anywhere that serves alcohol

This suggested to me that this is a regular occurrence and has happened before. However your comments afterwards suggest this is the first time you have found yourself in this situation.

Which one is it?

Because if it has happened before I'm just surprised no one has tried to come up with alternatives/solutions/had conversations/ or just plainly
Told her that's not going to work.

janey I would say that really pious Muslims wouldn't be around alcohol at all. Like my FIL who I mentioned above.

And some of us are not as pious/observing so happy to be around alcohol as long as aren't consuming/paying for it.

It depends on the person

Janey it depends on the individual some people are stricter and some people are more laid back.

As an 18 year old she might feel intimidated at the thought of being surrounded by drunk work colleagues.

None of my muslim friends or colleagues have had an issue with being where alcohol is served, but anyway, what about a nice afternoon tea?

Going off topic slightly,but why do people think that because you are an atheist,you have no right to celebrate Christmas? I am an atheist,as are my family and quite a few of my friends,but we all celebrate Christmas in a non-religious way. When you have young children,then grandchildren,it is very difficult to totally ignore Christmas on the grounds that you are not a Christian. I have always celebrated Christmas in my own way,and I don't mean getting paralytically drunk!

Whether a person is a pious Muslim or not- we live in a non-Muslim country where alcohol is a part of the culture. If you live here, you kind of need to accept it.

If someone doesn't want to be around it socially, then they can choose not to participate. Religion over social life.

It's not on to inflict your own beliefs on other people. It's nice when people accommodate but they certainly shouldn't HAVE to.