School: "no babies allowed"

[Lardeedar]

My DD's primary school insists that for all school meetings, nativity plays and parents evenings, no babies or toddlers are allowed to come. I have a toddler that I look after at home, and I'm perfectly capable of keeping him quiet (phone, iPad and lollipops given rarely enough to be novel seems to work) or failing that, I have curtesy and common sense enough to remove him from the location if he does decide to pipe up!

The school just assumes I have a nan up the road on hand to babysit whenever I want but I don't. These meetings or plays are always 2-3. Both my parents are working, as are my siblings and friends, they have jobs and the two that don't have their own kids and school runs preventing them from helping out.

I'm expecting my third child now and am really upset about all the plays and meetings I'll have to miss because they won't let me in with my newborn. Even if I did have available childcare I resent being obliged to leave my (probably breastfed) newborn for any amount of time for such a stupid policy. Is this normal? Are all schools like this??

Difficult one, but I always hated it when parents and some staff (relatives of the person involved) laughed fondly as their toddler ruined it for someone else's child who had learned their lines. No, its not cute and funny and was a typical feature of the village primary school where all are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Having said that on the other side, I remember the children singing Little Donkey out of time and tune and to me it sounded happy and lovely and I was laughing to myself - not at the performance being awful just how happy and enthusiastic the kids looked. A parent alongside me was frantically filming their child and looking furious, both at the children at me. It is a childrens' performance not the West End stage fgs.

Driveninsane - maybe you have been lucky at the performances you have attended? Every year, on MN, this topic comes up in some way, shape or form, and there are so many stories of really disruptive behaviour from siblings of the performers absolutely ruining the performance for the children who have worked so hard to learn their lines, and for the parents who want to see their child's moment of glory (even if that is just fourth sheep from the left, singing Away In A Manger.

A bit of noise is not a problem, at this sort of thing - but there are some parents who let their toddlers run around, shriek, climb on the stage, scream - and don't make the effort to either keep them reasonably quiet (not West End Performance quiet, just fairly quiet), or to take them out if it gets too much.

Sadly the rules are being made, at some schools, to manage the lax parenting and thoughtlessness of the few, not the behaviour of the majority - people like you and me, who will manage our children, and won't let them spoil it for everyone else.

Some schools do several performances - which does mean that parents can get together and share childcare - and the suggestion of a dress rehearsal that siblings can attend, is a good one too.

I can see both sides here.

When ds was little I remember coming onto a thread about this and couldn't see how the noise could be that bad - if little ones (including ds) made a noise, the parents took them out - in all the school stuff we went to at the dd's school it was never an issue. There might be a little bit of noise, but all the children could be heard and there wasa lovely family atmosphere.

Now at ds's school it is another thing altogether - the last couple of performances have been bloody awful and at the last one the head said, 'can I remind everyone with little ones that there is a crèche, with a large window so you won't miss any of the show, and if people don't use this facility then we will have to stop pre-schoolers and babies coming'. It is a very inclusive school - but the noise was appalling. One little girl behind me was screaming throughout the whole thing, with her mum just shouting 'shut up' at her, whilst the little girl bashed me on the head with her dummy (which was a bit of a pointless bloody object!)

It ended up with ds and another boy having to leave with their hands over their ears and very upset - they both have special needs - it takes a lot for them to get up in front of a church full of parents and their peers. Ds had learnt a dance with a little group of his mainstream classmates, and was supposed to sign a part of the narration with his 1-1 (this is the first time in 3 years that he hadn't spent the majority of the time on his 1-1's knee), but he didn't get to do it because of another baby - in the front row - who was screeching in really loud sudden bursts (ds's worst type of noise that he is sensitive to). The mum and dad with her did sweet fa about it, and just sat watching their child happily, while everyone around them winced.

They are a very inclusive school - there is a sn unit within the school, so there are a high number of children with disabilities - every effort is made for them to be included in the shows they do, and there are of course children who will make involuntary noises themselves. The school has always been really welcoming of families and siblings, but I was pretty stunned at the selfish behaviour of the parents who didn't take out crying babies and screaming toddlers at the last couple of shows. It was a real eyeopener, because each baby seemed to set another one off, and it was just a wall of bloody screaming! It is especially annoying as there are facilities that enable a parent to attend with little ones and still see the show, without disturbing others.

My son's Primary School had that rule but parents with toddlers/babies were welcome to come to the Dress Rehearsal free of charge. That seemed to be a happy medium for most people.

Inconsiderate parents of screaming babies and tantrumming toddlers, who do not appreciate the time, effort and practice it has taken to produce a school concert, are the reason for this blanket ban. And rightly so. Most schools allow pre-school age children to watch the dress rehearsal. Everyone else then gets to enjoy watching the concert in peace.

...And the performers get the respect they deserve to deliver their lines...

There is nothing disrespectful about preschoolers being preschoolers, no - but what is disrespectful is parents allowing a level of disturbance from their preschooler that spoils the performance for everyone else, zzzzz - and it is these parents who are the cause of, and target of these bans.

Before the last few performances at ds's school, I would have agreed wholeheartedly - little ones need to learn how to behave in a situation like this and can only do it by being allowed to go, it is lovely for families to watch each other perform and pre-schoolers making a bit of noise is not a big deal........but honestly, the lack of respect shown by the parents in the last few shows, when their children were making some immense noise, and were often clearly upset, was astounding.

I would hate for the head teacher to say that pre-schoolers are banned, it would feel all wrong - but I also hate that after years of building him up and gaining confidence at things like the nativity, assemblies and harvest festival, ds is now a bundle of nerves, because of the bloody racket at the last one. And I am not just saying that for ds and his peers who also struggle to even attend things like this, but for all of the children having their moment of waving to their mum, dad and gran with a tea towel on their head!

we are each other's biggest fans and best role models
How sweet, zzzz. If you let your toddlers run amok during a school assembly you are completely deluded if you think you're modelling good behaviour. The disrespect (and it is) is all yours.

I'm at all the people ridiculing these plays ("It's not The Globe" etc). How can parents not have any empathy for how important these plays can be to a little child? In this case, their needs trump their siblings' or parents' needs.

YABU

Isn't it strange how parents of wailing kids can manage to quiten them long enough to watch their siblings? That's alright then...buggar everyone else 😏

...And also, it's about the child performing. It is NOT an educational opportunity for a younger sibling who can't yet behave in public.

I don't think baby 'whack me on the head' was a big fan of her brother - she was just might angry to be squashed into a church pew with her mum modelling the behaviour of telling her to 'shadddddaaaappppp'!!!

I am also taken aback at some basically ridiculing these plays. I still remember being in a nativity at age 4 as an angel. It was a HUGE deal to me.

Also people will younger children will get to see another child in these types of plays. For those with only children it is their only chance. It might not be the globe but I won't get it again and neither will he.

The posts here only confirm why some schools choose to exclude preschoolers. Newsflash, people, it's not about them, it's about those children who have put their heart and soul into learning their lines, getting their costumes etc, including some for whom just being on that stage is a massive effort!

If you think that schools are only inconsiderate on this issue, I can only assume that you are very early on in your 'primary school career'!

Tomorrow - I don't think it works like that, because when you have more than one child you don't see them as an amorphous mass! If I missed dd1s nativity, I wouldn't be thinking, 'ah well at least I get to see dd2s/ds's....after all they're all just kids aren't they??!!!' I am sure your child is precious to you as my children are precious to me.

Also, if, as people are claiming, it's all about the children, then it shouldn't be the case than only only/youngest children get to have their family in the audience. And the ones with siblings generally want to show off to them as well their parents.

Perhaps not but some of these people being so dismissive are so dismissive as these things are a repeat experience for them. For so many mums they aren't or it's the first time and it's such a joy for them that the other mothers may not care they can't hear someone else's child as they cannot control their toddler who they brought as it is their right to be there but for that child and their parent it may be a big deal.

FlogginMolly, indeed but it's a societal disgrace making kids ponce about wearing nonsense like that.

I do so wish I had a recording - I have never heard anything like the harvest festival! And tbh I don't think it has ever been that bad before, as they always say how lovely it is to see younger brothers and sisters there. It just seems as though the last few events there has been a complete lack of giving a fuck from some of the parents - and it is such a shame because there are lots of siblings who are being really good, and parents who ate being considerate and taking their children up to the crèche and watching the show from up there.

The ideal solution is to have one day when you can bring little ones, another which is child free. There are two sides to this issue. When dc3 was a baby, the head of my dc's school wouldn't allowed younger siblings. Now she is at school, the new head allows them. I though this was a good thing until I had to sit through many productions and assemblies without being able to hear because of a crying or whining toddler. Then I saw the other side of the argument. There is one particular mum I am close to having an argument with as every assembly and production her little girl cries and she doesn't ever take her out for a break. It's not fair on anyone else.