School: "no babies allowed"

[Lardeedar]

My DD's primary school insists that for all school meetings, nativity plays and parents evenings, no babies or toddlers are allowed to come. I have a toddler that I look after at home, and I'm perfectly capable of keeping him quiet (phone, iPad and lollipops given rarely enough to be novel seems to work) or failing that, I have curtesy and common sense enough to remove him from the location if he does decide to pipe up!

The school just assumes I have a nan up the road on hand to babysit whenever I want but I don't. These meetings or plays are always 2-3. Both my parents are working, as are my siblings and friends, they have jobs and the two that don't have their own kids and school runs preventing them from helping out.

I'm expecting my third child now and am really upset about all the plays and meetings I'll have to miss because they won't let me in with my newborn. Even if I did have available childcare I resent being obliged to leave my (probably breastfed) newborn for any amount of time for such a stupid policy. Is this normal? Are all schools like this??

No body is suggesting bringing a 'screaming toddler' most toddlers have the capacity to sit on a parents knee for the duration of their submits performance ..... what did someone eat earlier '5 words' ......
also most considerate parents who have to drag their children's siblings along are considerate and aware and remove toddlers if tantrums and screaming ensue.....
just my experience .
Also in my experience with my older two DC (2 year gap between) he toddler was only enchanted with watching the other kids perform..... that plus free rein at a packet of Pom bears ........ toddler heaven

Siblings performance

By the time the toddler is tantrumming or making other noises, it may be too late in terms of disrupting those children on stage.

Not all parents can attend performances. And it's shit for them whatever the reason. And that might be work, or illness, or other crisis, or (if a nativity) atheism or other differing faith. Or the reason might be childcare.

But that's not reason enough to expect the rule, if such a one is in place (and it is pretty widespread) would somehow not apply to you.

"Why are you and your family so much more important than all the other DCs? I'm genuinely curious about how anyone could be so utterly entitled and yet not see it."

Well first of all, I personally don't do things like this. I am cravenly rule following. I limped for years (and am still not right) because I couldn't be examined properly by the GP when I had protracted SPD after dc2's birth - because I had a toddler and a baby, the sign said "no pushchairs, leave outside" - and the GP didn't know how to examine a person with no way of putting a baby down. I know that sounds bonkers but it is true. To be honest the GP probably didn't know what to do about SPD full stop and had she examined me it would probably still have been a wasted appointment. But IF you had sat down the person who made that sign / rule at the dr's surgery and said "ok. I get why you can't have the place pram city, I see why you can't have 12 4 year olds sitting in pushchairs eating crisps while old people with walking frames just can't navigate the space. BUT. If there is a baby who is too small to sit without being held, and a toddler in the same family, and a woman who needs to get on a bench to be examined - can you make an execptino, for one pram between two children for that appointment?" I hope the answer WOULD have been yes. But I am conditioned not to argue, not to seek exceptions.

I don't like that trait in myself and I think that I and my family sometimes miss out because of it.

I actually DON'T think that any one family is more important than another. BUT I like to think that the rule "no toddlers" is a blunt instrument that isn't intended to penalise children whose parents have small children to look after. It isn't intended so that Little Johnny can be the only child looking out over a sea of adult heads and realising that his parents didn't show. And then he is too disheartened to enjoy the whole thing. And cries afterwards and says "mummy, why didn't you come?" that isn't, I hope, what it is for. It is so that 25 out of 28 parents of toddlers who CAN find somewhere else to leave them for that one time might do so, leaving only three, leaving a calmer hall and and more manageable noise level.

Of course, this is nuanced and nuance isn't easy for some.

For school plays and assemblies my DD's school has started to specify one of the showings as welcome for parents to watch with babies/toddlers. I can't see why Parents' Evening would be a problem as it is not disruptive to anyone else if your baby cries.

And I really, really hate the assumption on here that everyone has their mum or a kind friend around the corner.

Any parent assuming it's adorably cute to let their toddlers run up on stage during an awards assembly should have their head mounted on a spike at the school gate, as a warning to all others.
Morons.

I don't mind babies and toddlers, I'd ban the bloody "press Corp" parents, who push their way in so they can set up their video cameras on stands across the first 2/3 rows. (Well, back when my kids were little, now you get to watch everything through a sea of sodding mobiles).

I didn't hear dd2 doing her first school performance due to a baby crying and the mum refusing to leave the hall as she "didn't want to miss it". Unfortunately with so many entitled, selfish parents schools have brought these rules in. When dd1 was at school I had baby twins. Total nightmare to organise childcare as nearest family is 1.5 hours away and most in the US (I'm in the U.K.). So dh would stay home with dc for parents evenings and occasionally I took dtds to assemblies but stood at the back, leaving if they made a noise. It's very unfair on the dc performing to have it ruined after putting loads of effort in.

This thread is making me even more grateful than usual for my children's school.

maudlin totally agree with you.
My DS is doing the nativity this year. He's only interested in taking part "if you are coming mummy" . Fortunately I can get. I think a lot of children's enjoyment stems from the fact mum or dad watches, not doing a play in general, so I think we should encourage and facilitate as much as possible for parents to attend.

Yanbu. If our school did this I would have had to miss all my dcs meetings, assemblies and plays. We live 100's miles away from family and the only friends we have are those at the school. I have always watched with my child by the back, ready to nip out when needed, but now dd3 is 4, she just sits quietly through assemblies and plays. To me this would feel like some sort of punishment for having a younger child.
Yes, toddlers making noise can be annoying, but a decent microphone system should make the voices of the children louder. Surely as parents, everyone bar those with only 1 child (or 1 set of multiples), have been in this situation at some point?

My DC's school does three performances of the nativity (R-2 so age 4-7): "dress rehearsal" for the Juniors and Preschool; 10am, unticketed and all welcome; 7 pm, strictly two tickets per performing child.

Let's just say I watched the middle performance from the corridor last year as DC3 (then 2) wouldn't/couldn't sit still. Even children-welcome doesn't mean "let's wreak havoc".

OTOH they had a daft Reception graduation type thing which was full families plus cake and drinks. After about ten children had been clapped across the stage, DC3 started asking "DC2 turn?" just before each child. I was stuck deep in the room ironically because I'd deliberately arrived as late as possible with the Hellbeast and although he wasn't disturbing the actual presentations I was desperately embarrassed. But I couldn't work out how to leave without making a real distraction.

And of course DC2 was called last.

Tbh I like a blanket rule. It's much simpler to have a clear choice "find childcare or don't go" than worry about wrangling the Hellbeast and miss half of it anyway. We mainly go so DC see us there rather than actually to watch it IYSWIM.

Maudlin. I agree with you. Our presence at the play is what makes it special for my dcs.

Soz, you YABU. The rule is there for a reason, and while you may be able to control your child there are many out there who can't or won't and thus ruin school events...I work in schools, I have seen it happen. The head can't very well say no kids but you look like you will keep your child quiet, so it has to be all or nothing.

It's a primary school play, not a royal command performance!
Toddlers regularly run up and down the aisles during the nativity at our school. Helps to break up the tedium of a very long evening! Thank goodness it's one night only as the church pews are very uncomfortable after a short while.

You've rehearsed your assembly or show with your class for weeks. If they're ks1, many have small voices. There is nothing worse than a child who cries, or shouts out or bangs or crunches........etc throughout. It ruins the play for the audience but more importantly it ruins it for the children performing. My head always suggests taking crying children out but believe me, many parents don't. I appreciate that some children sit nicely & I understand that it is tricky go find child care but first and foremost it is about the children performing.

From a School point of view we have a policy at DS's school where no babies/toddlers at the evening performance of the nativity or school plays due to not being able to hear the children performing as not all parents will try to entertain their DC's and keep them quiet. Also we (when possible) offer a space to entertain school age children who might have to come along but not watch the play.
At parents evening we use to have a room where the music, languages and head stayed in and then other children stayed there whilst babies went with parents. We had to change it as too many parents let their children/toddlers trash the classrooms during parents evening and wouldn't tell them off. All the hard work by the children in some classes was pulled off the wall and ripped up etc.

The majority of parents would behave sensibly but too many people these days aren't considerate enough.

My responsibility is to the students enrolled in my school

Indeed. Some of those children will have parents who - for whatever reason - don't have childcare. Does their performing child have to accept that their parents can't be there?

You are basically assuming that everyone can do what you do. You forget about those who don't have support networks or available cash to throw at babysitters. But fuck 'em, eh, your only responsibility is towards people like you.

Indeed. Some of those children will have parents who - for whatever reason - don't have childcare. Does their performing child have to accept that their parents can't be there?

Yes.Others will have parents who are working, ill or dead

Sadly you always get that minority of fools who sit where they cannot easily get out and believe their crying child will settle ... in 10 minutes or so!
Our primary schools hold the nativity play twice. Once with siblings and the next date without. Generally works well.

It's a horrible lowest-common-denominator rule.

there is a huge difference between a handful of strategically exercised toddlers sitting nicely on laps and beaming at adults nearby who catch their eye (with the occasional renegade being decisively marched towards an exit), and unmanaged mayhem with 149 two year olds thwacking adult legs with plastic swords while their parents ignore them in order to film the action on stage with a massive iPad that blocks 12 people's view.

I feel like we have lost all hope of arriving at the first, satisfactory scenario by giving up and just saying "fuck it, small people can't come"

And as a result, some parents (who may be very good at managing their blessedly malleable toddlers) miss out.

Children don't know whether they have been heard or not. The pleasure for the children is about performing in front of their parents. They do know if they have not been watched though!

However the enjoyment from the Parents point of view comes not only from seeing your child, but hearing them.

To ban a parent because they have been unable to source childcare, for whatever reason, may lead to some Parents decrease in enjoyment due to extra possible noise. However the child of the said parent has his enjoyment largely removed - to benefit other parents. It's not that child's fault!

Now if we are really child centred, we should focus on what matters for children, not parents.

Ideally, no toddlers, but life isn't always ideal.