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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man in the ladies loos AIBU?

332 replies

HairsprayBabe · 08/11/2016 16:34

First apologies for typos or spelling errors I am on my phone.

I am currently at an even where 95% of the attendees are men. I just went to the ladies and saw a man coming out of the cubicle. I told him politely he should not have been in there. His response was "Fuck of love".

I am annoyed he was in the ladies in the first place but raging he felt he could speak to me like that! AIBU to think that men shouldn't go into the ladies loos?!

OP posts:
M0stlyHet · 08/11/2016 22:36

Figure 1 shows the breakdown of male and female prison populations in the UK, by type of offence, for 2009,2010,2011 - figures from Ministry of Justice stats. (Note the difference in scale of the y-axes on the two plots - the axis on the female graph runs to 2000, that on the male graph to 20000, because only 5% of the prison population is female).

There are round about 1000 women in prison for violent offences. There are round about 20000 men in prison for violent offences. There are round about 9000 men in prison for sexual offences. There are about 100 women in prison for sexual offences.

IT IS DEMONSTRABLY FACTUALLY FALSE TO CLAIM THAT A RANDOM WOMAN AT THE SINK NEXT TO YOU POSES AS MUCH RISK OF VIOLENCE AS A RANDOM MAN.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/11/2016 22:36

Rapists like to invade women's boundaries up to and including the rapes they commit. Men who are enter women's loos are invading women's boundaries

Good point. It's not just about male violence it's also about empathy. My DP is a big bloke. If he found himself walking behind a women on a deserted street he would cross the road and drop back as he knows that he could make that woman feel uncomfortable. Equally he would never insist in using the womens toilets, even though he is not a rapist. He understands that men are a threat to women, and is mindful of this around women he does not know. He has empathy and understanding rather than being an entitled twat.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 22:38

I don't agree that it's ever reasonable for a man to tell women to fuck off when in their space. I find it completely indefensible and wonder why certain people are scrabbling around for reasons to defend it.

geradine · 08/11/2016 22:38

Rapists like to invade women's boundaries up to and including the rapes they commit. Men who are enter women's loos are invading women's boundaries.

I think this is what bothers me so much about it actually, the invasion of boundaries, disrespect, entitlement etc. Not all men like that are rapists, but all rapists in my (professional) experience are like that.

RoseGoldHippie · 08/11/2016 22:38

Not going down the I'm alright jack route I was merely giving my opinion.

As many women in this thread have stated, I would use the men's toilet if long que for the woman's etc and I think it would be hypocritical of me to say that's okay but the other way round is not. And actually it is the same as the men are going to be in the small space regardless! Just in the men's the blokes will also have their penis on full display.

Just because I don't think all men are attackers does not mean I lack empathy for people who have been victims.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 22:38

I agree, and it's what bothers me too.

PurpleDaisies · 08/11/2016 22:39

Thing is if they do have a valid reason it probably is personal and therefore you are more likely to get a fuck off.

If it was an emergency I'd expect them to acknowledge they shouldn't have been in there and apologise. I also would expect that a man in an emergency would ask to go to the front of the queue in the men's rather than go to the ladies.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/11/2016 22:40

However if the one disabled toilet is locked or you can't lay your hands on the radar key what are you going to do?

Then on that one particular occasion you do what you need to do, which is in most cases to ask for the key. You don't then use it as an example of why men need to be allowed access to womens spaces.

Theres a difference between one off emergencies, and demanding access for all men are all times, just in case.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 22:42

You do lack empathy Rose. Or you wouldn't be advocating for those victims of rape to be put in situations many of them find uncomfortable.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 22:43

A lot of straw men on this thread.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 08/11/2016 22:44

I don't agree that it's ever reasonable for a man to tell women to fuck off when in their space. I find it completely indefensible and wonder why certain people are scrabbling around for reasons to defend

Agree

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 08/11/2016 22:48

I posted this on another thread ages ago

went to the skygardens which has a long corridor with individual cubicles off it. The funniest thing was when a man waltzed past the queue and was turned back by a security guard.The queue did have some men in it but he hadnt noticed and just thought huge queue equals womans toilet and i dont have to wait

We sent back to the skygardens recently...same thing happened 3 times. But funnily enough all three men APOLOGISED

Toffeelatteplease · 08/11/2016 22:48

I'm sure an elderly man can manage to get himself to an appropriate toilet - appropriate for adult men, that is.

True story and no he couldn't at the time. It was an old department store and the loos were tucked away hidden round the back. Heaven only knows where the disabled were cos they weren't in the same place. The nearest others were at the top of another big department store down 2 flights of stairs across a road and up 3 flights of stairs or two properly ancient lifts. He had though he could get to an appropriate loo he didn't know it was out. He was beyond mortified

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 22:51

That's a vanishingly rare situation. And I bet he wouldn't have told a woman to fuck off if she quite reasonably asked why he was there.

Toffeelatteplease · 08/11/2016 22:55

He wouldn't have even gone in there if I wasnt there! Ironically the only other person in there was another male...

RoseGoldHippie · 08/11/2016 22:55

Venus - in what post did I say that? Please tell me where I said men should be in woman's toilets or that unisex toilets should be the way to go?

Please tell me this! Or did I just say that women can pose an equal threat to men and can be equally intimidating. And that on the rare occursnce this happens it's not a instant panic moment.

Also as I have stated I rarely use toilets which are cubicles in the sense they used to be. That I mostly find them to be the mini room types that means you are basically just sharing a sink. I also stated in the USA this would be a different situation where you can see everything because of the tiny door.

So yes please tell me where I said tape victims should be put into situations they find uncomfortable.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/11/2016 23:02

Please tell me where I said men should be in woman's toilets or that unisex toilets should be the way to go?

You have never said that. You have said that you can't understand why women would have an issue with men in womens toilets.

Or did I just say that women can pose an equal threat to men and can be equally intimidating

Which is completely wrong...

SpeakNoWords · 08/11/2016 23:03

No one has said that all men are attackers The point has been made about the statistical risk, and therefore the likelihood of any one man being a risk. This speaks to the reason why many women are (reasonably) worried about being in an enclosed space with an unknown man who knows that the space is intended only for women.

I wouldn't use the men's if the queue for the women's was long because I wouldn't want to see men using the urinals, or for them to have to put up with me seeing them. But I doubt any men in that situation would feel threatened by my presence if I did.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 23:04

If you don't think men should be able to go into women's toilets what are you even arguing about?

Many public toilets are stalls which have space at the top and bottom, not "mini cubicles". There are many documented cases of men violating women's boundaries, being voyeurs, filming women without their consent. There are whole communities devoted to it on the internet.

And for the hundredth time, women do not pose an equal threat as men.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 23:07

And who are you to say it isn't an "instant panic moment"? If a woman is using a public loo on her own, and a man comes in, it could be very intimidating even if the man poses no danger.

venusinscorpio · 08/11/2016 23:07

Especially for a rape survivor.

RoseGoldHippie · 08/11/2016 23:12

Statistically women may not pose the same threat but that doesn't mean that women can not be equally as threatening in situations.

I'm not arguing that men should be allowed in women's toilets, in arguing that not all men are going to attack a woman just because he has used their toilet, especially when, as loads of women on his thread have said and not just me, women don't seem to have the same worries nipping into the men's toilets when there's a queue.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/11/2016 23:15

Statistically women may not pose the same threat but that doesn't mean that women can not be equally as threatening in situations.

Only if, like you, that person believes that women are as equally violent as men.

I'm not arguing that men should be allowed in women's toilets

So you agree that toilets should be segregated by sex?

in arguing that not all men are going to attack a woman just because he has used their toilet

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that.

SpeakNoWords · 08/11/2016 23:15

No one has said that a man is going to attack women because he has used the women's toilets.

PurpleDaisies · 08/11/2016 23:16

I'm not arguing that men should be allowed in women's toilets, in arguing that not all men are going to attack a woman just because he has used their toilet, especially when, as loads of women on his thread have said and not just me, women don't seem to have the same worries nipping into the men's toilets when there's a queue.

Nobody is saying all men in women's toilets are rapists. Nobody.

I can't work out if you're being deliberately obtuse or you genuinely can't see why someone who has been sexually assaulted wouldn't want any man surprising them in the women's toilet, regardless of how harmless they expect that man to be.