Man in the ladies loos AIBU?

[HairsprayBabe]

First apologies for typos or spelling errors I am on my phone.

I am currently at an even where 95% of the attendees are men. I just went to the ladies and saw a man coming out of the cubicle. I told him politely he should not have been in there. His response was "Fuck of love".

I am annoyed he was in the ladies in the first place but raging he felt he could speak to me like that! AIBU to think that men shouldn't go into the ladies loos?!

But your not though, your in a cubicle and a lot of cubicles now are mini rooms, especially in high end hotels and pubs. The only shared area is the sinks.

You are in a cubicle in a small room with one exit. It is quite likely that the cubicle can be looked over or under.

Everyone makes this a sexual thing and I don't understand that

Not a sexual thing, a sex thing.

yes I'm sure more women have attacked other women in toilets than men, doesn't have to be sexual. Or are you suggesting women don't physically attack each other?

As has been repeatedly pointed out, with evidence, as a group men are far more violent than women. Due to womens generally smaller stature and lesser strength a male.on female attack is likely to be more serious than a male in male or female on female attack.

I don't think that anyone thinks the man in the OP had medical need or was a child/teenager about to be accompanied by a woman. Telling someone who reasonably challenged you to "fuck off love" is rude and unpleasant as well as intimidating in that particular situation.

Roll on the proper unisex loos. Until then, men should refrain from using the women's (unless they have a real need to, in which case no reasonable person would object, clearly).

toffee the situation you describe must be rare indeed. I can't think of a time when I have ever been near a women's loo, but at least 10 minutes walk from the men's or a disabled loo.

And I've only once been in a situation where there was no queue for the women's but a queue for the men's.

Men don't need access to women's loos. Women do need sex segregated spaces. Even if some women aren't bothered, I can't believe you're so dismissively of other women's concerns .

Everstrong

Rose Did you even bother reading my last post? They were flimsy wooden cubicles with a big gap at the bottom.

Well you certainly don't tell a woman challenging you to fuck off, honking. The ladies' is not an extension of the disabled. I'm sure people would probably understand if there was an actual reason given.

Not so hard to grasp actually. What I do struggle to understand why a women basically using a sink next to a man is any more terrifying than using a sink next to a woman. You don't know who that woman is!

I also don't understand why men are so much more dangerous in a bathroom than they are anywhere else, what if you were working late and there was a man you didn't know staying there too?

I also rarely see toilets now that are just the cubicle with loads of viewing room.

Everstrong -

Every time I'm on one of these threads, I remember my first year at university. One of my friends was raped (classic stranger rape in a dark alley, 5pm on a winter evening on her way back from lectures, wearing a sensible tweed skirt, woolly tights and flat shoes - and the police still "no-crimed" it because she was so traumatised they thought she'd go to pieces on the witness stand). I spent the best part of a month sleeping on her floor so someone would be there for her when she woke with nightmares in the middle of the night. Eventually we had to get the college authorities to help persuade her to go home to her parents because she was suicidal. (I'm glad to say she did eventually come back, and got through her degree in the end).

I can't help but feel that while clearly rapists ought to be in the inner circle of Dante's inferno, there should also be a special place in hell reserved for women who minimise male sexual violence and belittle the fears of victims. And if that thought offends some of the posters on this thread - good, you bloody well ought to be offended. In fact, you should be more than offended, you should be ashamed.

Not so hard to grasp actually. What I do struggle to understand why a women basically using a sink next to a man is any more terrifying than using a sink next to a woman. You don't know who that woman is!

If you are not expecting a man to be in the ladies (because he shouldn't be!) you're immediately suspicious of him.

Clearly this man was out of line with at least the swearing. I do think though that some people do not appreciate the difficulties others have in finding a toilet to use. Carers of male teenagers have been told in previous similar discussions that they should not be in the women's toilets.

Everystrong I may not agree with your conclusions but no one could argue with your reasons why.

Rose - look up percentages of attacks according to sex, not stories.

Toffee - ffs. My son has autism and is on meds for constipation. You are not the first SN mother in the world so get off your high horse. I'm sure an elderly man can manage to get himself to an appropriate toilet - appropriate for adult men, that is.

This is not about feeling uncomfortable. It's about protecting women, protecting women's rights, valuing women's feelings, and defending women from entitled males who may or may not be sex offenders.

hairspray

Thinks its too late, the threads really taken off

Full of quotes that nobody actually said

Think its a bit sad actually

And i will reiterate...you were not being unreasonable

Yes, you seem to have very little empathy for the very many women, including the OP, who are uncomfortable with men in female sex segregated spaces. So a bit hard of thinking, yes. It's not all about you and your inability to comprehend the issue, is it?

What I do struggle to understand why a women basically using a sink next to a man is any more terrifying than using a sink next to a woman. You don't know who that woman is!

Again. Men, as a group, are far more violent than women.

I also don't understand why men are so much more dangerous in a bathroom than they are anywhere else, what if you were working late and there was a man you didn't know staying there too?

I tend to have my knickers on in work. I also tend to not be in a small space with one exit either. But yes, if I was alone in a small stationary cupboard with a man I didn't know I would be very uncomfortable.

I also rarely see toilets now that are just the cubicle with loads of viewing room

That is not the case where I stay. Unless they open into a corridor rather than a room with one exit many of the same things apply.

This isn't a male teenager with a female carer. Straw man.

HairsprayBabe

Sorry I didn't see that, I think I missed a page :( and I don't think he should have been so rude to you. It does seem that the kind of men you need to associate with for work (judging on ymthe sexist jokes etc) for work would react like that which is a shame.

I do however think it's quite offensive that a lot of the women on this thread seem to jump to all men are going to hurt you in the toilet. I was really responding to that more than your opening OP (sorry)

there should also be a special place in hell reserved for women who minimise male sexual violence and belittle the fears of victims. THIS!

Ever heard of Schrodinger's Rapist, Rose?

ItsAll, you don't seem to know what a straw man argument is. My post responded to a statement that if 1% of women felt uncomfortable about this then their wishes had to have priority and inquired where the logical conclusion of that proposition is. That is clearly not a straw man.

Instead of going down the I'm alright Jack route Rose why not have a little empathy and support for women who would find this uncomfortable? Great you don't care but lots of people do so why not support them rather than the man who wasn't supposed to be in there anyway?

The logical conclusion of the amount of men who rape is that it's quite possible that a random man in the loos is a rapist. Rapists like to invade women's boundaries up to and including the rapes they commit. Men who are enter women's loos are invading women's boundaries.

My post responded to a statement that if 1% of women felt uncomfortable about this then their wishes had to have priority and inquired where the logical conclusion of that proposition is. That is clearly not a straw man

Your post ignored the fact that the reason women are uncomfortable is because of the fact of male violence.

The boundary is already set. If you are an adult, with a penis, do not go into the women's loos. Nobody is stretching it, it is quite clear and simple.

Right. So we're fine with boys who are 17 years and 364 days old in the ladies, are we?

Thanks hairspray

Rose It doesn't necessarily need to be a sexual thing though. People can feel threatened for any number of reasons. I don't truly believe every strange man I meet is going to rape me but I feel physically threatened by someone bigger/stronger/louder than me.

We still live in a society where women are harassed when they are breastfeeding in public, what if a woman uses the ladies loo to feed her child as she feels uncomfortable doing so in a busy place. How would she feel if a random bloke then walks in?

There are also religious/cultural considerations. In some cultures, young women are not allowed to engage with men whom they are not related too. For a young woman to be seen in a bathroom in the presence of a man could put the woman in a very difficult situation with regards to "honour"

he situation you describe must be rare indeed. I can't think of a time when I have ever been near a women's loo, but at least 10 minutes walk from the men's or a disabled loo.

I would hope so given the number of women who would rather the man wet themselves than enter the woman's toilet

The ladies' is not an extension of the disabled. I'm sure people would probably understand if there was an actual reason given.

It is not. However if the one disabled toilet is locked or you can't lay your hands on the radar key what are you going to do?

Thing is if they do have a valid reason it probably is personal and therefore you are more likely to get a fuck off.