DP and DM can't stand each other - WWYD?

[crocodarl]

Apologies for the length of this, but I want to avoid drip feeding if possible...

I have a great relationship with my DP and also with my DM, but, as with many inlaws, they really don't get on with each other. In fact, they fell out properly when DS1 was about 10 months old and I found it very difficult as I got completely stuck in the middle trying to mediate between them... after that they didn't see each other for about 2 years - I went once or twice a year for a long visit to DM with the kids but DP stayed at home.

Over the last couple of years things have improved and DM has been over to stay with us several times and although they still aren't keen they seemed to manage to tolerate each other for the sake of me and the kids. However, now it seems to be all boiling back up again... DM is visiting as DS3 has just been born and pretty much every day there is some kind of unpleasantness.

The problem, I think, is partly cultural and partly just personality clash. They are both people who are very set in their ways and automatically think anyone else's way of doing something is wrong if its different from theirs - but neither of them thinks they are like that! Also, DP is very direct if he is annoyed about something (in a way DM finds very upsetting and rude) and DM is completely insensitive about stuff that is clearly likely to set him off (then gets very upset when it does). She thinks he is aggressive and controlling. He thinks she is rude and over-reacting.

Lately the issue has been cleanliness: DP and his family are borderline obssessive about domestic hygiene. DM has a far more relaxed approach. Obviously I was raised by DM and so am not panicking about dirt, but on the other hand I quite like things clean, especially as we have a new baby at the moment I think it's quite normal and sensible to be a bit careful about handwashing/keeping things clean around the house. DM takes exception when DP asks her to wash her hands when she comes into our house (although there's no way she'd do it if he didn't) also she really doesn't get how disgusting it is for him that she has a day old used cloth hanky in her pocket. Also at dinner this evening she passed a drumstick she's already eaten part of to the 2 year old to finish... and she'd think nothing of using a tissue she'd already used herself on the 2 year old or the 4 year old ... to be honest I'm totally with DP on all of this being wrong/revolting, although on the other hand I grew up with this kind of stuff seeming normal and knowing we are all healthy and all survived so also think it's fairly harmless really - just I wish she wouldn't! But on the other hand I know she means well and she's lovely in lots of other ways and I hate that this is making her feel so unhappy/uncomfortable around us - but i wish she'd just think a little bit!! And as for her relationship with DP, this is just 1 example - even if we got the hygiene issue sorted, he would find something else to be annoyed about.

I have tried talking to both of them and tried to give them tips to help them understand each other a bit better but it really hasn't helped ... and I'm starting to think the best plan is just to keep them away from each other... I just don't have the energy to try to fix this any more, I am so sick of being stuck in the middle ... I used to find it upsetting, now it's just sort of funny except for neither of them sees it that way.

I don't want to sacrifice my (or the kids') relationship with either of them, and I don't want to ban DM from visiting us (or for DP to have stay out of the house when she does) but I don't know if I can stand the atmosphere of of what's it's like when she's here.

So, thanks anyone who read all the way through this! And, from your own experience regarding inlaw relationships, should I just let them fight and stay out of it, or should I go back to only visiting DM at her place without DP? I think she'd be devastated though, if she thought she wasn't welcome at ours.... Any suggestions welcome.

Sorry, but I really don't think it's acceptable to ask a grown adult to wash their hands. Is he the same when his friends, or yours, come to visit, or is the hand-washing request reserved for your DM?

I fail to see how it's any business of his how long our DM has had her cloth hanky in her pocket. Does he do her laundry? No, thought not.

I think your DP is way over the top and that your DM could do with accepting that people do things differently.

As to how to make them cohabit in a nicer way, I'm not sure. I suppose that you have tried to tell them exactely how this is affecting you and how they could try and make an effort.
After that, really, it's up to them to make the fort and they clearly don't want to :(

As an aisle, being from a different culture/country is NOT a get of jail card to do whatever you want.
All well and good that it is what he is used to, however, if he is living somewhere where things are done differently (e.g. Being very direct!), then Up to him to adapt. I say that as a foreigner married to a British husband. You have to adapt to the family/country you are living in.

Your DM, even

Your mum also does not have horrible habits. She's just human

I think your partner is a nasty man who is damaging your relationship with your mother.

Treating another human being as if they are disgusting is dehumanising.

He is using his ridiculous hygiene "standards" as an excuse to bully her.

Even you admit he would find another excuse if she complied with his rules.

So you are not "caught in the middle".

You are standing back and allowing someone to bully your mother.

You have picked a side.

The side of the bully against their victim.

I agree with doinit

I feel really sorry for your DM.

If I were your mum, I'd be so tempted to give the baby a spit wash using my mucky tissue, right in front of your husband. But then I react badly when faced with ridiculous behaviour!

I think your DP sounds awful OP. I have 2 DCs and have never asked anyone to wash their hands on entering the house. I never wash mine on coming in either, unless I've been walking the dog. I would be really pissed off if your DP demanded that I did. I feel sorry for your mum too.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect hands to be washed before handling a newborn! Any adult who is offended by basic disease control is a bit over-sensitive in my opinion. The used hanky being wiped on my child's face would turn my stomach too.

'Disease control'? God, it makes it sound like everyday life is a plague pit! It is enough to wash hands after toilet visits and before handling food. You can't keep babies spotlessly clean anyway. Asking everyone to wash hands on entering your home is rude and unnecessary.

I would wash my hands before holding a newborn that's not a problem at all. But he doesn't stop there does he?

When my ds was born my husband had a horrible cold. He was really worried about giving it to ds but the midwife said that he would be protected by my antibodies and not to worry.

I actually think hygiene becomes more important as the mum's antibodies wear off, so to speak. A baby being a week old is a red herring.

My husband washes his hands when he comes into the house after work because he's been on tube and train. But we (I) are far from hygiene-obsessive. He's more concerned about it than I am.

basic disease control 😂😂

Basic disease control

The examples you give are ridiculous, OP. Washing your hands when you come into the house? Sharing food? Having a day-old hankie in your pocket? All completely normal things.

Oh, and completely isolating a child from all contact with dust and germs is a pretty good way to guarantee an allergy.

Are there any of your family who DO comply with with rules that your husband has imposed ? Does he like any of them ? Are they allowed to visit you and your children ?

When your friends come to visit with their children does he stay home and supervise their hand washing ?

When you first met and married, how did you negotiate the rules of hygiene ( and other rules ) in your home ?

Does your husband do the cleaning in your home and guest apartments or do you have a full time cleaner ?

Your DH is the one with the problem. Rude, controlling and demanding. You need to put your foot down.

Utterly ridiculously ott. Bacteria is everywhere. Much of it is beneficial. And you need to build up a resistance to the non-beneficial ones, not live un a bubble.

I have a friend whose husband is similar, tbh it was never his request that was the problem it was clear that he was disgusted by you even being in his home (he could not hide it). I thought it was just me but it became clear over time that all her family and friends stopped visiting. Not his family though. The problem my friend has is she will not go out without him and he is as bad outside of the home. Most of her contact with family and friends is social media.

Iim with your mum on this, I share food with my kids and I wouldn't be offended by my mum doing the same, nor would I describe it as 'revolting' and as long she didn't wipe old snot on their faces I wouldn't stress about a used tissue either

Astonished at your DH's lack of respect and his rigidity

People should wash their hands after going to the toilet and before and after preparing food. They shouldn't handle a newborn if they themselves are unwell with something that is catching. They also shouldn't stick their unwashed fingers in babies' mouths or hold their hands unless their own hands are washed.

Other than that, UNCLENCH!

I married into a very hygienic family, whereas I'm very very relaxed about hygiene other than the above (and dealing with raw meat). I don't think it's any coincidence that out 4 branches of DH's family we are the only branch where nobody has asthma.

This thread is a good explanation of why immunological disorders are now rampant in developed countries. We have low levels of breastfeeding (something which is proven to help protect newborn babies from infections) and high levels of unnecessarily neurosis about hygiene.

Feel really sorry for your mum and think she should stay away, for her own sake.

Does your DP do this with everyone, or just your DM? Her level of hygiene doesn't seem particularly unusual.

I would think some halfway house must be possible. Can't they find an acceptable middle way? e.g. your DM washes her hands more often, your DP leaves you to manage contact with baby. Make it clear too that their bickering and intransigence upsets you.

Hmm the handwashing thing depends on how hygienic your mum is in other ways imo op. If she doesn't bother washing her hands after using the loo or picks up random shite while out then I can understand it.

The fact you say that if it wasn't hygiene it would be something else leads me to think that deep down you know or at least think he is more of the issue. How is your mum insensitive? What does she do?

Your DP is rude and controlling. He's trying to freeze out your mum (and it sounds as though you don't actually sees that much of her anyway) and destroy your relationship with her. You've acknowledged that if it wasn't 'hygiene' he'd find other excuses to be unpleasant. He's managed to stop her visiting in the past and it sounds as though he's hoping to achieve it again. She's your mum, it's your house too and you have to find a way to stop this escalating. As your mum gets older she will need your love and support and that of her grandchildren. A loving partner would put his own feelings aside to support you.

All visitors to a house should wash hands before handling a newborn baby and adult mouths carry bacteria which though harmless to the adult could be fatal to a child.Passing a half eaten chicken drumstick to a child is unwise.My sympathies are with your husband and you should back him up.I remember well being horrified when my MIL licked an ice cream cone before handing it to my toddler-her house is superficially much cleaner and tidier than my own or my mothers but she was uneducated regarding interpersonal hygiene as is your mother.