DP and DM can't stand each other - WWYD?

[crocodarl]

Apologies for the length of this, but I want to avoid drip feeding if possible...

I have a great relationship with my DP and also with my DM, but, as with many inlaws, they really don't get on with each other. In fact, they fell out properly when DS1 was about 10 months old and I found it very difficult as I got completely stuck in the middle trying to mediate between them... after that they didn't see each other for about 2 years - I went once or twice a year for a long visit to DM with the kids but DP stayed at home.

Over the last couple of years things have improved and DM has been over to stay with us several times and although they still aren't keen they seemed to manage to tolerate each other for the sake of me and the kids. However, now it seems to be all boiling back up again... DM is visiting as DS3 has just been born and pretty much every day there is some kind of unpleasantness.

The problem, I think, is partly cultural and partly just personality clash. They are both people who are very set in their ways and automatically think anyone else's way of doing something is wrong if its different from theirs - but neither of them thinks they are like that! Also, DP is very direct if he is annoyed about something (in a way DM finds very upsetting and rude) and DM is completely insensitive about stuff that is clearly likely to set him off (then gets very upset when it does). She thinks he is aggressive and controlling. He thinks she is rude and over-reacting.

Lately the issue has been cleanliness: DP and his family are borderline obssessive about domestic hygiene. DM has a far more relaxed approach. Obviously I was raised by DM and so am not panicking about dirt, but on the other hand I quite like things clean, especially as we have a new baby at the moment I think it's quite normal and sensible to be a bit careful about handwashing/keeping things clean around the house. DM takes exception when DP asks her to wash her hands when she comes into our house (although there's no way she'd do it if he didn't) also she really doesn't get how disgusting it is for him that she has a day old used cloth hanky in her pocket. Also at dinner this evening she passed a drumstick she's already eaten part of to the 2 year old to finish... and she'd think nothing of using a tissue she'd already used herself on the 2 year old or the 4 year old ... to be honest I'm totally with DP on all of this being wrong/revolting, although on the other hand I grew up with this kind of stuff seeming normal and knowing we are all healthy and all survived so also think it's fairly harmless really - just I wish she wouldn't! But on the other hand I know she means well and she's lovely in lots of other ways and I hate that this is making her feel so unhappy/uncomfortable around us - but i wish she'd just think a little bit!! And as for her relationship with DP, this is just 1 example - even if we got the hygiene issue sorted, he would find something else to be annoyed about.

I have tried talking to both of them and tried to give them tips to help them understand each other a bit better but it really hasn't helped ... and I'm starting to think the best plan is just to keep them away from each other... I just don't have the energy to try to fix this any more, I am so sick of being stuck in the middle ... I used to find it upsetting, now it's just sort of funny except for neither of them sees it that way.

I don't want to sacrifice my (or the kids') relationship with either of them, and I don't want to ban DM from visiting us (or for DP to have stay out of the house when she does) but I don't know if I can stand the atmosphere of of what's it's like when she's here.

So, thanks anyone who read all the way through this! And, from your own experience regarding inlaw relationships, should I just let them fight and stay out of it, or should I go back to only visiting DM at her place without DP? I think she'd be devastated though, if she thought she wasn't welcome at ours.... Any suggestions welcome.

Star they asking DM to wash her hands when she comes in the house.

And no star it is generally not necessary to wash hands before picking up a baby.

However shock horror that might be to you.

Yes obviously washing hands before feeds, administering medicine etc etc . But not to hold baby.

And people wonder why we have more allergies & intolerances than ever

I have to say, I think you are being unreasonable in some ways. I feel for you, being stuck in the middle (although think you are more in agreement with your DH, TBH) of two people you care about.

IMHO some of the things your DP/you are getting het up about are OTT, although clearly what you do in your own home is entirely up to you. However, you say your mum is really unhappy and uncomfortable- if that was my mum and it was over some relatively small things, I really would try to let it go because our relationship and the relationship between her and my DC is so much more important than a minor thing like whether she has fresh hankies in her pocket!

Unless your baby/older DC has some specific health problems which make them more susceptible to infection I think you are a bit over concerned about infection/cleanliness and, within certain limits, I think you need to live and let live a bit more. For instance, I think asking guests (even considering you have a very small baby) to wash their hands as they enter your home a bit much- I can understand why some might think it's a bit rude TBH. Asking washing hands before meals/making up bottles/after handling pets or something, fine- but the minute they enter your house they must wash? Sounds like you think others are unsanitary which isn't exactly welcoming.

Same goes for the your DM having a day old hanky in her pocket- might not be something that you do, but I don't think it's very fair to try and dictate what she can have in her pocket when she's in your house. Fair enough to ask her not to use it on your child, but surely she's an adult who can decide what to have in her pocket/what kind of hanky she wants to use?! I wouldn't have an issue with sharing food, although can see why others might.

What I would say is this is your mother- you say she is generally lovely and kind. Is this behaviour towards her in any way kind? I get that you do things differently and she should try to respect that if she staying in your home so there are wrongs on both sides, it's just I think as transgressions go, your DMs are quite small. I'm thinking how much I'd struggle to keep up with your rules. I wash my hands VERY frequently at work but really don't bother quite so much at home- after using the loo/before handing or preparing food/if they are obviously dirty would be the main times. Same when DD was small.

However, given your DH's/your strong beliefs about it and the fact your mum won't/doesn't remember to obey your rules, it seems a compromise is not to be found easily. So it maybe best she doesn't stay with you but stays in a hotel, or you go to visit her with your children and leave DH at home. I think I'd worry about the damage this may cause to the relationships all round, but I guess sometimes you just have to make the best of a bad job.

I feel so sorry for your mum reading your OP. Sounds like visiting you must be pretty awful for her at a time which should be a really happy occasion. Asking her to wash her hands as soon as she gets in the house? WTAF? This is not normal. Do all of your guests get this special treatment or is it just reserved for your mum?
Your DP is way OTT. I would not let my DP treat my mum like that.

Your DP sounds extremely unreasonable. Why is he treating your mother like that? If he has always treated her this way I wouldn't expect him to like her.

What's so bad about a kid having a bite of that drumstick? Does nobody in your house ever use the same glass? Sneak a bit of pudding from somebody's fork? Or is he just 'disgusted' by her?

As for the hankie... well, if she only used it once or twice (I have one I use for when I get a slightly sniffling nose after stepping into a building) I don't see the problem.

I personally do wash my hands when I come home. I use public transport to go to work... but there's no reason to demand this from guests.

I do understand that you have to support him in some way (seeing as he's your DP). But I personally couldn't deal with this behaviour...

*I wouldn't expect her to like him.

NoMud It's not necessary, of course, but I think it's kind of common sense for newborns. I know bacteria is everywhere, but on the other hand, nobody wants their newborn to pick up a bug if it can be helped.

Unless I've misread it, DH is only focussing on hand washing for the new baby - he didn't request it before the baby was born, did he, OP? If so then yes that would be rude. If it's for the new baby, I think if I was a grandma then I would be happy to oblige for my new grandchild, even if I didn't believe in it that much myself.

I'm genuinely confused- do other people specifically demand that anybody who enters their house must wash their hands on entering? That seems incredibly rude, TBH. I have never been asked to do this.

Is it common for parents to demand that anyone who touches their baby must have washed their hands before doing so? This seems bonkers to me, unless the child in question has a specific medical reason that would render them more susceptible to infection/means having infection could be very serious. I am genuinely surprised- I have never asked anybody to do so, and have never been asked to either.

And agree with a PP re other children- you can wash their hands but unless they then do not touch anything else until they reach the baby, they will have covered themselves in bacteria again.

They're as bad as earch other but in different ways; that said, I'd find ott hand washing less irritating than I'd find using a tissue for a child after using it herself gross.

They're both unreasonable.

Come to think of it, I have always offered to wash my hands before holding a friend's brand new baby! Not when they are older and a bit more robust. I think it's just respectful?!

The rest of the time I am normal about hand washing. Yes to the usuals (after loo, before preparing food etc) but not all the time or for no reason.

It sounds very difficult for you OP, but from your account it really is your DP that's causing the issues. Why is he being so unpleasant to your mother?

Is it just a matter of her staying for too long? Nothing in your post seems problematic to me about her behaviour, and you say this is only one example of the fault finding your dp has with your mum. Is he OK with other members of your family and your friends?

Your DP sounds very disrespectful. I find it odd that any culture would support him in making his MIL feel unwelcome and trying to impose his arbitrary hand washing rules on her.
You ask WWYD - I would tell your DP to back off. Dictating hand washing, and complaining about what a guest has in their pocket, is scarily controlling.
You say your mum is lovely. If that's the case don't let your DP push her out of your lives.

OP I must admit I'm curious as to which culture your DP is from that is so cleanliness obsessed?

Is he a Sikh? DH's Sikh girlfriend is much more handwashy and generally hygienic than the rest of us and make me feel a bit slack. To be honest, washing your hands when you come in is not a bad habit to get into.

Your dh sounds completely mad!

Iif you all live together then youl'll all have the same germs, so using the same tissue to wipe the faces of two chldren is really a non-issue.
Sharing a drumstick is simply saving it fom being wasted.
Washing hands as soon as you come in? That sounds so judgemental - that may not be quite the word I want here, but whatever word it is, it's horrid.

Your poor mum.

But he is also from a completely different culture and country, and his behaviour is normal there.

Bollocks! He's got OCD re cleanliness, is intolerant of anything that he doesn't like and it's a case of basically his way or the highway

The examples you gave are NOT revolting/disgusting - remember your mum brought you up. Your dp is just projecting his own over-reactions onto your mum - and he's brainwashing you into becoming exactly like him.

I think his aversion to your mother touching his child or sharing food with her has more to do with his cultural prejudices than actual safety and hygiene.

Don't think that just because he's with you that he's open minded and tolerant. He's got you doing and seeing things his way so as far as he's concerned the correct/right/acceptable thing.

Sounds to me he likes being in control over everything.

I think your DM is being a bit unreasonable.

Doesn't everyone wash their hands as soon as they come in, that's totally normal in my house, same when I arrive at the office and before I eat and after using the bathroom.

It's your house your rules,

Agree completely with Don't mind me, your DH sounds rude and obnoxious and I can't see what your mum is doing that is so bad. I really feel sorry for your poor mum

I agree with DontMindMe1 I don't believe it is anything to do with his culture, though it might be the culture in his family.

You seem to think that your mother is dirty because she wouldn't immediately wash her hands coming into the house. I have never heard of such a tradition and I am really into hand washing.

Also sharing a food with a child! Unless you have a contagious disease, normal two-years-olds come into contact with so much filth on a daily basis, that a bit of someone's saliva is the least of their worries.

Sorry, OP, I'm not offering any solutions, but I do think your husband should not be so gratuitously disrespectful of your mother.

I want to know where DP is from, too - he sounds quite rude.

I know plenty of people who routinely wash their hands when coming in from a day around and about, on public transport and so on. Yes, it is a bit of a drop in the ocean but at this time of year especially if you use the underground or similar it helps. When I visit people I think likely to be concerned, I wash my hands straight away, precisely so they do not have to ask or feel uncomfortable.

Anyway, whatever.....the point is OP that they both should be thinking of you and whatever their differences are, they should make some compromises, put up with the rest and sort it out. They are adults, they can work this out and the rest of the family should not have to put up with it. Your mum can surely agree to wash her hands even if pointless, for a quiet life, and to use clean tissues for the children. Your partner can try to keep silent when they share a drumstick or snack. If they have outstanding issues they can discuss them politely when alone so that you are not troubled with it.

If we didnt share leftovers I dread to think how much food we would throw away!

She gave away a chicken drumstick with a bite out of it, she hadnt stuck it up her arse and then handed it over!

Wow. Your mum should wash her hands when she comes in house but apart from that your DP sounds ridiculous! I'm with your mum. Honestly what is wrong with sharing your dinner with your 2 year old grandchild and a hanky being in a pocket a bit too long?!
Your DP sounds like he has issues and it's him that needs to change rather than your dm. What did he stop speaking to her about for the two years?! Did she forget to flush a loo or something?!

Your DP sounds controlling btw too

To me the key thing is that you say DP would find something else to complain about if DM did step up the hygiene thing.

Sounds like he just doesn't like her or want her around.

I would get to the bottom of this with him. If he's just being a dick, tell him to get real. She's your mum, she comes to see her daughter and grandkids and he just sucks it up for the duration of the visit, politely.

If he has just cause I would deal with that underlying problem.

As for being piggy in the middle, I generally think that with loved ones you owe it to them to have a good stab at shuttle diplomacy. But good grief woman, you've just had a baby and have two pre-schoolers. Let them sort it out between themselves. You don't need five kids to look after!