DP and DM can't stand each other - WWYD?

[crocodarl]

Apologies for the length of this, but I want to avoid drip feeding if possible...

I have a great relationship with my DP and also with my DM, but, as with many inlaws, they really don't get on with each other. In fact, they fell out properly when DS1 was about 10 months old and I found it very difficult as I got completely stuck in the middle trying to mediate between them... after that they didn't see each other for about 2 years - I went once or twice a year for a long visit to DM with the kids but DP stayed at home.

Over the last couple of years things have improved and DM has been over to stay with us several times and although they still aren't keen they seemed to manage to tolerate each other for the sake of me and the kids. However, now it seems to be all boiling back up again... DM is visiting as DS3 has just been born and pretty much every day there is some kind of unpleasantness.

The problem, I think, is partly cultural and partly just personality clash. They are both people who are very set in their ways and automatically think anyone else's way of doing something is wrong if its different from theirs - but neither of them thinks they are like that! Also, DP is very direct if he is annoyed about something (in a way DM finds very upsetting and rude) and DM is completely insensitive about stuff that is clearly likely to set him off (then gets very upset when it does). She thinks he is aggressive and controlling. He thinks she is rude and over-reacting.

Lately the issue has been cleanliness: DP and his family are borderline obssessive about domestic hygiene. DM has a far more relaxed approach. Obviously I was raised by DM and so am not panicking about dirt, but on the other hand I quite like things clean, especially as we have a new baby at the moment I think it's quite normal and sensible to be a bit careful about handwashing/keeping things clean around the house. DM takes exception when DP asks her to wash her hands when she comes into our house (although there's no way she'd do it if he didn't) also she really doesn't get how disgusting it is for him that she has a day old used cloth hanky in her pocket. Also at dinner this evening she passed a drumstick she's already eaten part of to the 2 year old to finish... and she'd think nothing of using a tissue she'd already used herself on the 2 year old or the 4 year old ... to be honest I'm totally with DP on all of this being wrong/revolting, although on the other hand I grew up with this kind of stuff seeming normal and knowing we are all healthy and all survived so also think it's fairly harmless really - just I wish she wouldn't! But on the other hand I know she means well and she's lovely in lots of other ways and I hate that this is making her feel so unhappy/uncomfortable around us - but i wish she'd just think a little bit!! And as for her relationship with DP, this is just 1 example - even if we got the hygiene issue sorted, he would find something else to be annoyed about.

I have tried talking to both of them and tried to give them tips to help them understand each other a bit better but it really hasn't helped ... and I'm starting to think the best plan is just to keep them away from each other... I just don't have the energy to try to fix this any more, I am so sick of being stuck in the middle ... I used to find it upsetting, now it's just sort of funny except for neither of them sees it that way.

I don't want to sacrifice my (or the kids') relationship with either of them, and I don't want to ban DM from visiting us (or for DP to have stay out of the house when she does) but I don't know if I can stand the atmosphere of of what's it's like when she's here.

So, thanks anyone who read all the way through this! And, from your own experience regarding inlaw relationships, should I just let them fight and stay out of it, or should I go back to only visiting DM at her place without DP? I think she'd be devastated though, if she thought she wasn't welcome at ours.... Any suggestions welcome.

Ps I think the opinions on handwashing will differ depending on where you live - in London many people will wash their hands upon coming in because of being on the tube etc

Don't mind me is spot on. My thoughts exactly, you keep making excuses about the way your mum brought you up, you now believe she did it wrong and your DP was brought up the right way.

Goodness, we all use fabric hankies in our house including teenage DC, because they stop you getting a sore nose, when we eat out as a family we share food off each other's plates so that we all get to taste something different.

We must be a really minging family.

I'm with your Mum too OP. My MIL is gross in my opinion...she also does the tissue thing and rarely washes her hands but I would NEVER say anything!

I feel sorry for your mum. She must feel really uncomfortable when she's with your DH, spending time with her grandchildren. Your DH sounds rude and controlling, and putting his behaviour down to "a different culture" sounds like you're making excuses for him. Having lived in the Middle East and the Far East, I'm guessing he's a Muslim, where there's a lot of handwashing routinely goes on. However, hospitality and welcoming guests would take priority over handwashing - I have been to many colleagues' homes and if they were horrified by my hygiene, they were far too polite to say so. And no one ever asked me to wash my hands when I entered their home.

How about: you've just had a baby OP and you tell both of them to find a way like adults to get along whilst you get on with the business of recovering from birth and looking after a tiny baby.

Londoner pretty much covers it.

With them both in the room spell out how selfish they are being and, despite their feelings towards each other, if they both love you as much as they claim to do then they would grow the fuck up and sort out their differences without putting you square in the middle. Then excuse yourself to feed the baby you just squeezed out of your body.

Whilst I think that DP's rules are a bit OTT, I think you need to back him up. He needs to feel comfortable and relaxed in his own home, just as much as you and DCs do. You would expect him to support you if you felt unhappy about something his mother was doing, even if he didn't really see the harm in it. You and DP are a team, a unit, and therefore stick together. While these things are happening in his (and your, obviously) home around his (and your) new baby, it's making him uncomfortable and unhappy.

So, you need to say to your mum, in the nicest way possible but firmly, that in your home, your rules apply. "We ALL do it, not just you. In our house, we don't share food or tissues, and we wash our hands. End of story."

Again, I think DP is being OTT but it does sound as though this is really important to him. There are things that are terribly important to me concerning DS that probably look ridiculous to everyone else but my DP backs me up, that's how partnership works.

I should have said this too: for what it's worth, they should BOTH be more considerate of you. You're the one who has just had a baby and you're the one is being forced to moderate between two adults who presumably love you. You could just tell them both to grow up and focus on what's important.

He's revolted by the hanky she has in her pocket? I can't get over that.

He's revolted by the hanky she has in her pocket? I can't get over that.

He's revolted by the hanky she has in her pocket? I can't get over that.

He's revolted by the hanky she has in her pocket? I can't get over that.

I think I just learned that I am a complete and utter skank

Also, presumably the snot would have dried out and the germs would be dead- dont they need a living host? Any nurses able to confirm ability of cold virus to survive dehydration of surrounding snot??

Your DP sounds like a pain in the arse.

Sorry but I'm with your DP on this. We ask all people to wash hands before holding new baby. Easiest to do this as they come in. Also trained toddler to put tissues in bin after using them - have lots of boxes handy. Ultimately its your DPs home so he should get priority so he feels comfortable in his own home. Get your DM to stay in a hotel if she can't see that!

I think your dp sounds very controlling.

I would love to know what culture treats family so rudely.

It's not his culture, it may be his family.

I really don't think anything she has done is really that bad. Sharing food with a toddler is probably more dangerous for the adult, if it was dangerous to all. Toddlers are full of germs.

I have 2 kids. I also have 8 cousins who also have kids, loads of friends that do etc. I have never been asked to wash my hands in entering a house and I haven't ever asked anyone when visiting my newborn.

But to be honest, you say he would moan about something else. So if she stopped sharing food, got rid of the hankies, washed her hands 100 times a day while she is there. You know he would still be awful to her. So, in my opinion, you don't back him up. You tell him to stop treating your mother with such contempt.

Yeah.... He's a complete control freak. Has he never heard of the immune system and how it's good for kids to be exposed to germs so that it develops properly?

Im with your mum. She doesnt sound that bad. Your dh sounds way OTT.

I have held so many family and friends babies and i am sure that i havent washed my hands everytime i have held one of them. Nothing bad happened.

KeyserSophie: viruses are mostly very hardy. The rhinovirus can live up to 3 days without a host and yes, this includes on fabrics, surfaces etc. Tissues are by far the most hygienic

The "when in Rome" argument does not prevent a couple from setting the rules/culture in their own home. To what extent you can impose it on guests is another matter.

I would routinely wash my hands before holding someone else's newborn and wouldn't wait to be asked. Beyond that, I dont find your mum disgusting. If DP wants control over his children's snot, he needs to get in there first.

They are both pissing in corners to assert dominance. Neither are showing much love to you are they? I am more worried about your partner's behaviour though as he has to live there all the time. Maybe you should go to a hotel and come back when they've sorted themselves out.

Ok I am on your mum's side here - apart from washing hands with newborn which I think is polite given how tiny and vulnerable they are.

Hankies are normal for the older generation and I don't understand why it wpuld be a problem ? you are all sharing a space anyway. IT'S incredibly OTT of your husband to tell her what she can jeep in her pockets.

What is wrong with sharing food with a toddler ? Your husband is genuinely mentally unwell if he worries about thst.

I am generally quite keen on hand washing and have trained all the family to wash their hands properly every time they come in to the house. It is one of my very few rules if you like and I do find myself slightly revolted by people who don't do it. I would also wince at someone giving half eaten food off their plate to anyone else at the table tbh. So I'm rude and controlling! Who knew?

Your partner sounds like a control freak.

I find hankies grim in general, but that's because I associate them with generally unhygienic old men. I'd still never say anything to someone though.

The rest of the stuff is just nitpicking and controlling from your partner. To share a drumstick? Standard. Everyone's shared food and drinks in their life, surely. Demanding someone washes their hands before holding their grandchild? Get the fuck off.

And the fact that you admit that he'd just find something else to shit on her about if she did up her hygiene game says it all. What kind of man is this? He sure as shit sounds controlling and awful to me.

I don't know why this is such an issue. I do agree using a used tissue on a toddler is a bit yuck and washing hands with a new born is nice but giving a bitten drumstick is fine. These are all minor things and it's very odd that your DH has had such a huge overreaction to them. Why has your DH chosen to get upset about something so trivial? Why be so rude over something that really doesn't matter? How would he talk to other house visitors about hygiene? You can't link her to expectations around the kids as your kids are not adults or guests.

It runs much deeper. And I agree it's about control. He's jealous of your relationship with your mother and wants to shut it down. Seems he's been successful to a certain extent.

Team DM.