Confused about attitudes to prams on buses

[5FeetOfWater]

I know this can be a sensitive topic but I'd like some honest opinions.

I get the bus twice a day with 15-month-old. I usually park buggy in the space where the fold-down seats are (not the wheelchair space opposite, I know wheelchair users have priority and if I used this space I'd always give it up if someone needed it).

There are often 2 or 3 prams on the bus, sometimes 4. And almost every day I hear people complaining 'in my day we used to walk from - to - with the prams' (approx 45-min walk) 'look at all those prams, we never took our prams on the bus' 'why don't they fold their prams' etc.
I could understand this attitude if bus was crowded but it's generally half empty so the prams aren't in the way.
Yet people still sit on the fold-down seats when they can see prams are getting on. Yesterday I politely said
'Excuse me please, I need to put my buggy here' (at least 8 other seats free)
Lady moved to a seat 1m away with much muttering and glaring.

I always give up my seat if needed and avoid the priority seats as I'm aware people with walking aids and shopping trolleys need the extra space. But on some buses the fold-up seats have a sign above saying 'please give up this space to parents with prams and pushchairs'. There are 4 priority seats behind this area with space for walking aids.

I know I could fold, but it's safer to have DD strapped in. She's only just walking and I'd struggle to hold her and carry folded pushchair and nursery bags/shopping/my work bags. I often see mums with a toddler and a baby in pram really struggling to fit pram it because no-one wants to move.

AIBU??

No, she wouldn't but you are conflating twatty people with mothers and buggies in general. I have never seen behaviour like this from anyone. I'm very sorry your MIL had that experience but you seem to be extrapolating that to all mothers who don't fold and that is an absolute nonsense.

I know my mum had a silver cross when we were newborns (those big perambulator ones), there was no getting them in a bus. Nowadays you can get buggies for newborns so mum's can be out and about as soon as they like. No, they don't fold brilliantly but all I can say is from my 4 years of using one in Lonson buses, tubes and trains, not folding was never an issue - though of course waiting for the next bus or tube here isn't a big deal as everything is so frequent.

Exactly, Mumzy.
I had an umbrella stroller, it would hang over my arm so I could hold the baby as well.
It just takes some consideration all round.
Our buses have spaces for 2 buggies/prams (or wheelchair, obvs) and the the other larger spaces at the front are for people with restricted mobility. Even so, those spaces are often occupied by extra buggies.
If you know you are going to use the bus on a regular basis then buy a small lightweight stroller that folds easily.
Same with shopping bags on wheels. If you want to take it on the bus then buy a smaller one, not a tank like some people use. And people with unrestricted mobility (such as myself) move to the back of the bus.
Buses have limited space and have to be used by people with a variety of needs.

RiverTam, the problem with my MIL was she experienced it alot and it made it hard for her to go out. Young mothers can feel isolated but so can 80 year olds with cancern. I'm sure you can appreciate she didn't get the bus company involved because of one incident. I live 200 miles away from where she lived but locally there have been problems with mothers refusing to fold buggies and people in wheelchairs being left to wait for the next bus and here it can easily be an hour or more.

Of course its not all mothers but the point is that it never used to happen because it was the norm to fold your buggy.

I had a Silver Cross as well and you certainly couldn't get them on a bus but we did have folding buggies you could use, it was the 70s I'm talking about not the dark ages. We were out and about soon after they were born as well, I remember going to my antenatal classes one Tuesday, had the baby on the Wednesday and was back at the antenatal class to show him off the next Tuesday. I was the first in the group to give birth so he got alot of fuss and they didn't learn much about childbirth that week but two of them who had never held a young baby did have a cuddle and were very excited about it. One told me she had been terrified at the thought of holding her baby when it was born and felt more confident now she had actually held a baby.

YoJesse, that has changed as well. People used to offer to help, older women who understood the problem if you had alot of shopping or men just being gentlemen, even teenagers who often wanted to interact with the baby. People seem less willing to offer now.

MrsJayy, sorry your disability made it hard for you to fold and carry a buggy. Not sure how you managed with the one you described, wasn't that even harder?

I don't have a massive pram, I have a sturdy buggy with a lie-flat option for naps. It folds but still takes up space so would still need to fold one seat unless there was space in luggage rack (usually full of cases, shopping, kids scooters etc).

It's safer to keep a baby or toddler strapped in on a moving bus, so if there isn't space I wait 20mins for next bus rather than fold. I wouldn't expect others to fold either. The only time I've seen someone fold on a bus is when they have a stroller type buggy with older toddler who is confident walking.

Trying to wrestle toddler, massive rucksack and folded buggy onto bus sounds difficult and would take up almost as much space as unfolded buggy. Then setting it all up again when you get off!

I used to use an Ergo but she's too heavy for it now and it's a long walk to bus stop.

It is actually safer for buggys to stay up right folding them and putting them on a luggage rack or on a seat isnt that safe . I have never seen tutting or entitled behaviour from pram users most parents are considerate of spaces will wait on the next bus or fold no parent should feel forced to fold up a pram just because of a few tutters on a bloody bus.

Well Granny i either didnt go on a bus very with her or somebody was was with me it was a gift when new buses started providing pram spaces because i could just push dd2 on and park up.

Sorry to hear about your experiences on busses! I travel by bus a lot and never had any issues. Just yesterday, someone was sitting in a fold out seat and moved as soon as we got on, I didn't have to ask. Another time a teenage girl with headphones moved as soon as I approached and apologised for taking the seat. There are signs on the busses that state how many prams can be on the bus at one given time and that if there are more you have to fold yours or wait for another bus. Everyone seems to respect it and I think the driver would get involved if there was an argument.

Not everyone has or wants to use a sling.

Some of you are very self righteous.

I'm not surprised people are less willing to help nowadays given the frequency of threads where people don't want others interacting with their babies in any way.

God knows why I read this thread when I was having a nice Saturday. I have a small pram (bugaboo bee). I avoid travelling at rush hour if at all possible. Obviously I would get off if a wheelchair user needed the space. But I read stuff like this as a new mother and it made me feel awful. I had a c section which was very slow to heal. Even wheeling the pram onto the bus caused me pain. I couldn't have folded it without being in a LOT of pain. My baby hated a sling and screamed if I tried to put him in it. I had a lot of medical appointments I needed to go to. But I got so anxious because I thought everyone was judging me for having a pram.

I used to have this attitude when I was a teenager (until I got a car, escaped buses, and then matured!)

I grew up in inner London where buses were nearly always full, rush hour or not. Every time, parents would get on with massive buggies and take up the space where 4 people could stand, bashing into people's ankles and acting like the world owed them a favour. They never folded, even when wheelchair users wanted to get on. I lost count on the number of wheelchair users I saw turned away and left on the pavement because of these arseholes.

It made me really prejudiced against all people with buggies on buses. It was their attitude that gave me my attitude, IYSWIM. These days I'm maturer and more understanding, although I still feel the same about rammed buses - fold.

Lules don't feel bad, I had a Bee too, chosen precisely because it's narrow and wouldn't take up much space on public transport. In real life, I never once had a problem in the 4 years I used it. I budged up if I could, made sure the handles were pushed right in, waited for the next bus if all the spaces were taken, and I never once came across a wheelchair user (when of course I would have got off).

No-one with a buggy actually wants to get on a crowded bus, I never did unless there was no choice.

Lots of people on public transport are inconsiderate for any number of reasons. I never sit downstairs anymore, no need to, leave those seats for those who can't handle the stairs. I avoid the priority seats on the tube wherever possible. I always make DD sit on my knee to make a seat available for some knackered commuter. Etc etc etc.

I bet there are plenty of people who moan about buggies who never think about any of those things. Most of us try to be considerate, most of us don't manage it 100% of the time.

Haven't read the full thread but I just want to clarify that I didn't mean real yorkshire women (some of my best friends, etc etc) - I meant the 4 yorkshire men monty python sketch

RiverTAm

"granny we were babies in the 70s, no idea what my mum did but she thinks all the things that exist now to make life a bit easier for parents with babies are completely fantastic. You'd get no 'well, in my day we managed perfectly well' rubbish from her, thank god."

Yes! Me too, my mum is like that as well. She is always saying approvingly, "isn't this thingy marvellous?"

she invented and made some things that are now mass produced because things available were not as convenient as they could be (like baby vests that button at the bottom).

People who think it is a bad thing that it's easier to be comfortable while looking after a baby need to have a long hard think about why.

And why does this only apply to mothers of babies? Do you get people tutting at washing machines and thinking that those who use them are indulging in some ghastly selfish cop-out? I mean, you could. It would be much less costly in all sorts of ways if we went back to hardly ever washing our clothes except the linen next to the body, and that once a week (or less), by hand. You could well argue that it is selfish and decadent to throw gym stuff, PJs, underwear, socks, into an electrically powered washing machine on a daily basis. But no one actually does argue this. Because no one is as despised as much as mothers.

I used to have a massive double pram the bugaboo donkey which took up more space folded.
I always used the bus and empty buggy or wheelchair space and would always get off for a wheelchair user.

However I do remember an instance where I had to get off for a wheelchair user but this user was so entitled that she got on before letting me get off so it made it really difficult for both of us.

If the space is empty you use it to hell with people muttering or moaning. You just have to learn to ignore it.

I was sat in a priority seat once due to horrendous back pain, abdoninal pain and a migraine that meanr any movement or jolting caused searing pain the looks and tutting I got because I was unable to move for older people was horrific. Consideration goes both ways. I would always move where I can for elderly and less able people but sometimes I cant and need the seat and people need to be aware that it doesnt matter how long you look you may need the seat more.

MaudlinNameChange, I think you are missing the point. No one is against buggies on buses because they are easier. Using your washing machine isn't going to cause a problem for anyone else. Refusing to fold your buggy so that other people can get on the bus or so that disabled people can use the fold down seats does cause a problem for other people. If you are unable to sit on the ordinary seats, like my MIL was, then to be bullied into moving by someone who doesn't want to fold their buggy is just plain unfair.

If your mother is ever 80 with a dodgy hip and cancer (I hope not by the way, well I hope she gets to 80 but without the add ons) she might just see the other side of it as far as buses go. I'm sure other people's washing machine still won't bother her. I'm sure your mother doesn't mean that it is OK if it suits mothers and to hell with everyone else, she just means its nice to have easier things but you can do that with consideration.

Just to add I had baby vests that buttoned at the bottom when I had my first baby in 1970. Don't know why your mother invented them.

Sorry that should have been when your mother invented them not why, I obviously know why she did.

YABU. When you "politely" asked a woman to move for you, without realising it, you were actually telling her she was an abysmal human being for daring to sit there and for not knowing that you were going to get on after her and would want to use the space. How dare she not be able to realise that was YOUR space!

You say that "on some buses the fold-up seats have a sign above saying 'please give up this space to parents with prams and pushchairs'. There are 4 priority seats behind this area with space for walking aids."

Some buses have that sign, do they? Well, on those, perhaps you have a case. But what about the buses that don't have a sign? Why are you blaming people for not reading and taking notice of a sign that isn't there?

Remember that, just because you can't see a disability, you don't know that somebody doesn't have one. Perhaps the woman you demanded move was in an immense amount of pain? Perhaps the inconvenience to you was not as great as the inconvenience to her? For some people, even a few extra steps are immensely difficult.

Buses can be unpleasant, but all passengers have a responsibility for making them as least bad as they can be.

Even you.

WLF46 Thats a bit harsh. Asking someone politely to move isnt calling them an abysmal human being. It is saying please may I use that space. If the bus is half full then the buggy user is generally in more need of the extra space.

The fold up seats are fold up for a reason so if you choose to sit in them you run the risk of being ask to move. Ive often asked people to move and moved myself.

Just because you use the bus as a parent doeant mean you should always fold regardless. You fold when you need to or get off not when the space is empty because later someone may want it thats ridiculous.

Also I always took the approach that if I was going to fold it wouldnt make anymore seating room as I was going to be sat in the space where my buggy was as due to migraines and long term pain issues I wouldnt be able to carry a child plus my bags up to the back or anywhere else.

The only time I folded or got off was for wheelchairs anyone else can sit elsewhere

WLF what a load of nonsense. Other situations don't matter, the OP is very specifically talking about the set up on this bus.

You talk about being unpleasant, well, I guess you should know.

Good grief. I had no idea people got so angry about buggies on buses.

I live in London so the buses might be a bit different (no fold down seats) but I have taken two children in a buggy for about four years in total and have never folded it. If there's space for a buggy in the place clearly designated for buggies then I put it there. On the rare occasions someone has got on in a wheelchair, I've got off and waited for another bus. No drama. Admittedly this would be a pain if you lived somewhere where there was only one bus an hour. I could not in a million years be bothered with the faff of getting a (possibly sleeping) baby out, putting him a sling (which he hates) then doing it all in reverse 20 minutes later.

I also take the buggy on the tube if I'm going somewhere that isn't local. Despite the reputation that Londoners are all rude and hate their fellow commuters, people without fail offer to help me carry it up or downstairs.

Maybe you should all move to London and you'd have a much less stressful time

Oh and has anyone else noticed that London buses now don't actually have anywhere to put a folded buggy, because the space is now taken up with a box for the Metro?!

I was really lucky when mine were little we had those bendy buses (remember them?) Loads and loads of space.